Blizzard and Premades

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The 800 pound gorrilla in the room is still this: "If premade vs premade is the best pvp, why not do rated battlegrounds?"

There have been several different answers to that, but none are believable to me. It's like the older arguement that low level twinks enjoy fighting other low level twinks, it's true on some level, but once they got placed in separate battlegrounds away from the normal pug population their popularity suddenly disapeared. It turns out what people really enjoyed was winning easily and feeling powerful.

Let's see, in that last 7 hours I was on, I did less than 10 rbgs, due to having to find the right spec/classes, gear, rating so not to lose too much but be able to gain some, lots of regrouping because people only want to do 1 for the cp cap then leave. With all that requirement, it takes forever and is nothing but a hassle. With premade randoms, you don't have to worry about gear or specs or rating. You could take someone in quest greens, as long as they are willing to help with a win who cares. So, that right there is the difference between queuing with people for randoms and rateds. In the time I did less than 10 rbgs, I probably could have done 20-30 randoms if not more. And on a side note, RBGs isn't the best way to gear up as you get little to no honor even for a win.
Suppose I'm on the receiving end of this change. My battleground experiences since the change have turned dramatically for the better. I'm personally happy with the change.
12/07/2012 08:53 PMPosted by Prall
The 800 pound gorrilla in the room is still this: "If premade vs premade is the best pvp, why not do rated battlegrounds?"
Been answered countless times. Jugaa talked about a lot of the problems so read his post.

12/07/2012 08:53 PMPosted by Prall
There have been several different answers to that, but none are believable to me.
You can believe whatever you want. I know why I usually don't do them & why others don't. I think it's not believable to you because you already made up your mind & the truth is merely an inconvenience.

DK how anyone can defend the state of random BG's atm. They're truely awful and for people to say that everyone should have to suffer them without premades makes no sense. Premades are available to everyone. More now than ever.
Agree 100%

12/07/2012 10:19 PMPosted by Thebaine
I agree with Nystul that an intermidiate level of BG's would be supported and a welcome addition to the pvp game

What was wrong with matching up premades against premades? It used to be that way.
Another question that has been answered many times.

12/08/2012 12:52 AMPosted by Raensong
A poster up-thread mentioned premades were made to get wins without bots
I think players ignoring objectives and fighting in the middle of nowhere are often mistaken for bots (they act very much the same). I know they are players because when I curse them out for being useless they start running their mouths with "umadbro" or "go do RBGs". If you want to blame players for premades it is jackasses like this that are to blame.
The problem that exists with battlegrounds is there only exists two layers. Random battlegrounds, which are accessible to everyone (by design,) and Rated battlegrounds, which aren't as accessible as they should be. This leaves a certain niche of players without a place to play. The players I speak of are the ones who are restricted to random battlegrounds (for whatever reason) but want a more competitive level of play. While I personally don't think forming full premades is a solution to this, I am sympathetic to those players as it's something I am also interested in.

I spent a bit of Wotlk and some of Cata in a guild that had a sect of pvp players that commonly ran premades. I tagged along quite a bit and the experience wasn't very exciting at all. Most nights they won 12-13 in a row before they'd just quit due to boredom. So until the system (which hopefully it's atleast a bit better) runs pure premade vs premade, it just doesn't seem very competitive.

While I understand why the players are upset by this, I think it's a losing battle. Blizzard isn't defending bots, bads, and apathetic players with this change. Their defending the players who just want to queue up for a fun, stress free, unranked game. Whether those players are bots, bads, or apathetic players, is irrelevant. There just isn't a real middle ground right now, and I think Blizzard is wanting to push more people to Rated battlegrounds. But it's up to them to make them more accessible if thats what they want.
12/07/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Nystul
We both want BGs to be better, we just disagree on the method

Disagree. Premade supporters want the game to be better, for them, at the cost of everyone else. That's not making the game as a whole better, just their own selfish little experience.

Not true, I would love it if everyone formed premades...
12/08/2012 10:36 AMPosted by Eilane
When I stop getting GY farmed by premades until the timer runs out, I'll believe that the 'majority' of premades are put together for quick wins and not to just steamroll an unorganized pug.

I have been in plenty of pugs who gy farmed. It's not always premades...
Gonna repost there here...The rewarding aspect of oQueue for most of us including myself, is the people you meet and cohesively working together with others as a team in a battleground. Recently a lot of new people have been joining the community (just prior to approving oQueue) and I've heard several times how excited they are and how they haven't had this much fun in pvp in a long time.

oQ is not as easy to use or as quick as honor as you'd expect. Statistically, I can get into 3 BGs and win/lose them before I can get into or start an oQ group, queue up, get in all together and stomp face. I don't even need honor anymore. I just do it because it's fun to play with friends who don't such at pvp, actually want to win and actually listen to winning strategies. All of whom I've met via oQ.

When I don't have time to get into oQ cause I have to log some time soon, I just solo queue and I'm not cynical or a whiner so I don't mind it all that much. But don't get me's frustrating as hell at times.

This game is supposed to be for MMO...playing with others cohesively. Random solo queuing and the following is why I love oQ even more...and I trust that anyone who reads the below doesn't need any further explanation because everyone knows the frustration of dealing with it.

1. Me: "Hey Mr. Frostmage can you make a table please?" - Mage: "Go buy your own food!"
2. "Why do we need 3 people guarding Mines when their whole team is at WW? Oh you're all afk"
3. "Why is no one reporting the AFKs on the boat? I keep telling you to report them!"
4. "Kill the EFC!! Get out of the mid!"
5. "Can you guys please stop fighting for the Road gives you nothing in AB"
6. "Kill the orb carriers, grab orbs...stop everything else"
7. "Where are my heals!?" Me: "Well if you didn't just tunnel vision, you'd see that there is a rogue, warrior and frost mage all trying to kill me...all the while, you're trying to chase down that resto druid that's kiting you like a boss. You could peel off me with some sorta CC that everyone complains about these days...just sayin"

There's a lot more I'm sure you can imagine/remember. But you get the picture. This is why every time I play with oQ buddies, it's so much more fun.
But, let's look at it your way. Let's assume that every human player refuses to queue, unless he is part of a premade. What game do you get?

Which is simply never going to happen either.
12/08/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Piñata
Not true, I would love it if everyone formed premades...

Perhaps you would, but surely you must realize that is simply never going to happen. For whatever variety of reasons, many are stuck with Blizz's queue system, through circumstance or choice.

But, let's look at it your way. Let's assume that every human player refuses to queue, unless he is part of a premade. What game do you get?

Your premades vs teams full of nothing but bots. An easy, tasteless victory, every time.

The real problem would be queue times.
Obviously, but it does highlight the point. If not every single human player joins a premade, the ones that don't are saddled with an exorbitant amount of bots. Not only do they have to fight your premade, but they have to do so with half of their team mindlessly running about.

And this right here is the reason most people DL Oq...not to stomp pugs, but to get rid of this half of your bg. I'm glad you understand.
Blizzard needs to stop trying to balance around the bots and just fix the bot problem already.

Where will it stop even if they got rid of any kind of group queue how about the games where you get a team full of fresh 90's in quest gear where the enemy has full pvp gear and get gy stomped for the next 20 minutes. Do you expect them to balance that as well?

Random bg's will never be "fair" unless they got rid of group queues, gave everyone the same set of gear, made the queue give each team the same classes.

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