Blizzard and Premades

Battlegrounds
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Yes, Jugaa, I understand, all too well, but the fact remains that your ease is purchased with the grief of other human beings. The bots don't care. A solution that eases my life through the mechanic of offloading disadvantage onto another is not a solution.

Can't you see that? It is not a solution - it's only shifting the problem to someone else.


Call me selfish, but why should I care what others think? The few premades I did through this, my experience wasn't gy farms. The opposing team actually put up a good fight. There were a few different guilded people on the opposing team so it wasn't a full on pug. This DL is available to everyone, and everyone can join as a 5man group, so no I don't feel bad for the solo queuers/bots/afkers. Some pugs are even able to gy camp if the opposite team is bad enough, I think sometimes people call a pug a premade because they just work together well.
12/08/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Piñata
It's not a question of what they *think,* it's a question based around the fact that they are living beings with rights that you should respect,


I don't respect the right for someone to intentionally lose the game for the rest of their team, no.

12/08/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Piñata
It's sad that your winning is so important to you, especially when the method makes them worthless.


Idc if we win or lose, as long as my team is actually "trying" to win.
There's always an excuse to dehumanize someone when it's convenient for you to do so. When rights cease being rights, and become privileges you can grant or deny, then don't be surprised when others take your rights away.


would it make everyone feel better if I just got 4 of my most geared friends, got in vent and really stomped pugs. I think that's a lot worse (especially in a 10man) than 10 random people who happen to have OQ, and are trying to gear up...
Argument by reduction, now? Since you *could* abuse them even more, and are graciously not, the abuse you do inflict is ok?


I would say yes. Anyway off to work, have fun with your F2P crap :)
Argument by reduction, now? Since you *could* abuse them even more, and are graciously not, the abuse you do inflict is ok? Reductio ad absurdum, always a favorite of those in error.

No, what would make people feel better is for you to grant them the same rights you expect for yourself. Nothing less is acceptable.


To argue your own point, they have the same right to use oQ, or not as anyone else. Heck, you could take 2 parties of 5 and just countdown queue at the same time.

Alas the harder part is finding 2 parties isn't it.

To further argue your point, those of us who are on dead servers, have no chance whatsoever of finding arena partners and RBG players with any moderate amount of pvp skill. If it were not for oQ, I'd have never even step foot into an RBG. Does that mean that people on lively pvp servers such as KJ or Illidan have an unfair advantage and more thusly I'm not granted the same rights as they are?
12/08/2012 07:00 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
The problem that exists with battlegrounds is there only exists two layers. Random battlegrounds, which are accessible to everyone (by design,) and Rated battlegrounds, which aren't as accessible as they should be. This leaves a certain niche of players without a place to play.
Valid point, which is why I and others have suggested a 3rd option between randoms and RBGs.

I've said it time and time again. Just put the OP on ignore. 99.9% of what they say is inaccurate and if you don't agree with them you're just trolling, it's pathetic.
The only people I called trolls is Ningos, who made completely ignorant & stupid remarks just to evoke a reaction (pretty much the definition of trolling) and the poster you just quoted, who obviously didn't read what I said & made comments that I had already addressed. As for 99.9% of what I say being inaccurate that is complete nonsense. Just like so many posters here you seem unable to separate opinions from facts. You are entitled to disagree with my opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
There's always an excuse to dehumanize someone when it's convenient for you to do so. When rights cease being rights, and become privileges you can grant or deny, then don't be surprised when others take your rights away.
I don't give a rat's !@# about the rights of some jackass ignoring objectives & fighting mindlessly in the middle of nowhere. I have the right to vote kick his sorry $%^ out of the BG and if I'm in a 5 man premade that is exactly what I will do. I know the response to this from the midiots is "it's my $15 and I'll play like I want" and my reply to that is "great, go be worthless in someone else's BG, but I also pay $15 a month and you are infringing on my right to play how I want, which is to win the match".
WELL I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS!!!

oh wait...that means...

OMG I DON'T CARE ABOUT MYSELF!!!! /wrists
It was stated earlier in the thread that the best pvp was premade vs premade. I don't think that's true. The best pvp is premade vs pug. Individually the pug players are just as geared and skilled as the premade players. They can and sometimes do win. However, the organization of the premade usually turns the tide. That's what's fun. Winning due to your own decisions and actions. The ocasional loss is simply to introduce a small element of risk that keeps things exciting. However, when you lose the majority of the time, or even half the time, this stops being fun. That's why rated battlegrounds are so unpopular. You have to use the most geared characters you can find, and only the specific overpowered classes and specs. That's because losing is not fun and it's a very real possibility. That's where premade vs premade fails, because someone has to lose. Once that happens several times in a row, the premade falls apart because your 'friends' suddenly remember all the other things they'd rather do.
12/08/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Piñata
Rethink your mistaken answer.
The only mistake here is you thinking everyone has a right to do everything when they don't. BGs are a team sport... the needs of the team outweigh the needs of the individual, particularly individuals that have deliberately chosen to be bad teammates (bots & players ignoring objectives). That player using a bot program or ignoring objectives is infringing on my rights & since I am actually trying to win my rights trump theirs.

12/08/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Piñata
You are (or were) in the military of the most free nation on earth, the one that counsels all of the rest of us on human rights, and fights for those ideals.
Botting or ignoring objectives (making that player as bad a bot) are not "human rights". A better analogy would be playing a football game & one of the linemen is just going around smacking the opposing players & not doing his job (which is to protect the QB). That player is useless to the team & needs to be benched. Same goes for bots & players ignoring objectives.

However, when you lose the majority of the time, or even half the time, this stops being fun. That's why rated battlegrounds are so unpopular.
This is about 1% of the reasons why players don't do RBGs. The other 99% has been explained many times.
12/08/2012 02:58 PMPosted by Prall
It was stated earlier in the thread that the best pvp was premade vs premade. I don't think that's true. The best pvp is premade vs pug. Individually the pug players are just as geared and skilled as the premade players. They can and sometimes do win. However, the organization of the premade usually turns the tide. That's what's fun. Winning due to your own decisions and actions. The ocasional loss is simply to introduce a small element of risk that keeps things exciting. However, when you lose the majority of the time, or even half the time, this stops being fun. That's why rated battlegrounds are so unpopular. You have to use the most geared characters you can find, and only the specific overpowered classes and specs. That's because losing is not fun and it's a very real possibility. That's where premade vs premade fails, because someone has to lose. Once that happens several times in a row, the premade falls apart because your 'friends' suddenly remember all the other things they'd rather do.


Rated bgs are not fun because some classes don't get to play unlike a premade group in randoms.
If your a ret pally good luck getting into a rbg the response your gonna get is go holy.
Where as with a premade in a random bg if that ret pally wants to join i would welcome him to come. I don't really care what class you play all i care about is that you want to win.

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