Asking advice (now with logs)

Warlock
Hey guys, so I've managed to figure out World of logs and now starting to upload data of my raid starting with where we left off with MSV. So as Demo I was averaging about 50K on spirit kings, though I kinda lost it on our attempts with Elegon and tried switching to Affliction so I could dot up Elegon and SS over to the add. Anywho, I dunno how to post specific stuff so here is the link to me overall.

Anything I'm doing wrong, right, or anything I need to work on?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qgyflsm06i09tvdb/details/9/
Your Doom uptime is 91.3%. This means that you had more than forty seconds of downtime. This comes to a loss of maybe three ticks, which would be over 200k overall damage.

Your Corruption uptime is 80.1%, which is even worse. Losing out on over a minute and a half of uptime means about fifty ticks, totalling at least 330k.

When you consider that you have a minute-long dot and a dot that is refreshed through a main staple of your rotation, this shouldn't really be happening. Do not hesitate to jump into Metamorphosis for five seconds to refresh these.

Hand of Gul'dan should be used more often. If you properly stack Shadowflame, it becomes rather powerful on top of the Demonic Fury that it gives you.

Harvest Life should not be casted. It doesn't provide enough damage or healing to warrant being used as much as it is here on your logs.

Where is your Doomguard? It wasn't even casted on this fight, yet you have four situations where you could take advantage of the bonus damage it deals when the target is below 20% health. From that, you just threw away maybe 600k total damage.
Your Doom uptime is 91.3%. This means that you had more than forty seconds of downtime. This comes to a loss of maybe three ticks, which would be over 200k overall damage.

Your Corruption uptime is 80.1%, which is even worse. Losing out on over a minute and a half of uptime means about fifty ticks, totalling at least 330k.

When you consider that you have a minute-long dot and a dot that is refreshed through a main staple of your rotation, this shouldn't really be happening. Do not hesitate to jump into Metamorphosis for five seconds to refresh these.


Yeah, I'm still trying to get into the habit of using Meta more often. I'm still stuck on trying too keep as much fury as possible for when Dark Soul is off cooldown. :(

Hand of Gul'dan should be used more often. If you properly stack Shadowflame, it becomes rather powerful on top of the Demonic Fury that it gives you.


Currently, I've been trying to use it, use something else, then HoG again to try and do that. Mostly I'm having trouble with my addon as I use Need to Know for tracking cooldowns and it doesn't take into account spells that have charges to them so I end up forgetting HoG entirely while trying to wait for teh second charge.

Harvest Life should not be casted. It doesn't provide enough damage or healing to warrant being used as much as it is here on your logs.


I was using Harvest for the Madness debuff on Meng to try and quickly remove the debuff and minimize overall damage dealt to the raid team.

Where is your Doomguard? It wasn't even casted on this fight, yet you have four situations where you could take advantage of the bonus damage it deals when the target is below 20% health. From that, you just threw away maybe 600k total damage.


It's another, not use to using it situation. :(
12/06/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Renryuu
Yeah, I'm still trying to get into the habit of using Meta more often. I'm still stuck on trying too keep as much fury as possible for when Dark Soul is off cooldown. :(


It shouldn't take you 2 minutes to get 1000 fury.

12/06/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Renryuu
I was using Harvest for the Madness debuff on Meng to try and quickly remove the debuff and minimize overall damage dealt to the raid team.


Get rid of Kil'Jaeden's Cunning in Demo for most fights. We use a lot of instant casts already. Pick up Mannoroth's Fury and Hellfire the raid during the Madness debuff.
Each time you cast a shadowbolt look at your dots on the boss and on the next one look at your cooldowns relative to the bosses HP and phase/ability. You just need to be aware of what to do next so that your CDs are on cooldown and that your dots don't fall off.

....Demonology is a simple spec, I am not trying to bash you or anything this is just an opinion.

I started raiding like 3 weeks ago, i had 2 epics and i was usually near the tanks in terms of damage done. We did Elegon tonight, I was top dps at the end of the fight.

So it is possible! just keep practicing and don't tunnel vision :P
12/06/2012 09:54 PMPosted by Shakmaha
It shouldn't take you 2 minutes to get 1000 fury.


Lol, I dunno, I guess as I get more use to it and stop switching specs left and right, I'll get the feel of it and do better in terms of going in and out of demo form while ensuring I have enough fury for the DS cooldown.

Hellfire that.


Ah ok, I'll do that next time. ^_^
Each time you cast a shadowbolt look at your dots on the boss and on the next one look at your cooldowns relative to the bosses HP and phase/ability. You just need to be aware of what to do next so that your CDs are on cooldown and that your dots don't fall off.

....Demonology is a simple spec, I am not trying to bash you or anything this is just an opinion.

I started raiding like 3 weeks ago, i had 2 epics and i was usually near the tanks in terms of damage done. We did Elegon tonight, I was top dps at the end of the fight.

So it is possible! just keep practicing and don't tunnel vision :P


I agree that's it's simple. I think the biggest issue for me is that Since WoW is more action based in terms of the RPG realm, I get this mindset of of spamming as fast as possible since that's what tends to be required in other games I play such as Star Ocean, Tales of ____ series so I think I get it into my mind that I gotta spam my skills as fast as possible with no time to really look at stuff overall.

Also I wouldn't make a topic if all I wanted was to be babied and told that I'm doing ok. I wish to be critiqued, even if it may be harsh. Afterall, I'll never improve if all I ever ask is for praise and ignore anything that might be negative to my playing.

Also I can learn to look as I cast SB or SF since they do provide time to check situations. I wouldn't really say I get tunnel vision, but more that I'm trying to pay attention to everything, even when it stuff I probably shouldn't be caring about.
Get rid of Kil'Jaeden's Cunning in Demo for most fights. We use a lot of instant casts already. Pick up Mannoroth's Fury and Hellfire the raid during the Madness debuff.


This is terrible advice. Kil'Jaeden's cunning is our best talent, even for Demo. Harvest Life is better than Hellfire. It does the same damage as hellfire while generating more fury, heals you, and you don't need to give up your best talent to make it effective.
12/06/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Hoimen
Get rid of Kil'Jaeden's Cunning in Demo for most fights. We use a lot of instant casts already. Pick up Mannoroth's Fury and Hellfire the raid during the Madness debuff.


This is terrible advice. Kil'Jaeden's cunning is our best talent, even for Demo. Harvest Life is better than Hellfire. It does the same damage as hellfire while generating more fury, heals you, and you don't need to give up your best talent to make it effective.


KJC is absolutely horrible for Demo. If you need to cast and move, you should be doing so in meta, and spamming ToC or using Fel Flame if you don't have the fury. MF is better on fights like spirit kings where you will be AOE'ing a lot. AV, while terrible would be my second choice because the passive damage is still an improvement over KJC and MF on single target fights.

As far as hellfire, that used to be true until they fixed the fury gen to be on par with harvest life. Hellfire will do more damage, and you will gain just as much fury as HL as long as you have something targeted. Hellfire is the better choice as long as you are near full health because you can channel it while moving (without KJC). Harvest life is better if your healers are struggling to keep the raid up and you are below 50%.
12/06/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Hoimen
This is terrible advice. Kil'Jaeden's cunning is our best talent, even for Demo. Harvest Life is better than Hellfire. It does the same damage as hellfire while generating more fury, heals you, and you don't need to give up your best talent to make it effective.


Not totally sure how to respond to a gnome warlock of your raiding experience. I think I'll just say lol.

KJC is absolutely horrible for Demo. If you need to cast and move, you should be doing so in meta, and spamming ToC or using Fel Flame if you don't have the fury.


Or just take Kil'Jaeden's cunning and cast whatever spell makes the most sense for your fury status at the moment, losing nothing because the other 2 talents are about as close to useless as you can get.

Using Fel Flame is a DPS loss over casting soul fire or shadowbolt. Archimonde's Vengeance is less than 1% of your DPS on most fights, KJC is a far superior talent in any fight where you have to move ever. I.E. Every fight.

Hellfire is the better choice as long as you are near full health because you can channel it while moving


As you can with KJC, which every warlock should spec in to.

Really, do you actually have any logical reason for describing KJC as "horrible"?

Not totally sure how to respond to a gnome warlock of your raiding experience. I think I'll just say lol.


Because obviously I never played WoW until I rolled this gnome warlock 3 weeks ago.

My MoP raiding experience is a lot more impressive than your attempt at an argument.
Because mounting an actual argument against KJC would be impossible since they buffed it.


Yes. That's it.
Sorry you're butthurt. I'm sure you'll think of an actual reason to not take KJC soon, other than "lol".
12/07/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Hoimen
Sorry you're butthurt. I'm sure you'll think of an actual reason to not take KJC soon, other than "lol".


I have actual reasons. But you're arrogant and stubborn and so there really isn't a point in arguing with you. I accept defeat if that will make you feel better. Let's be friends now, okay man?
I have actual reasons. But you're arrogant and stubborn and so there really isn't a point in arguing with you.


You haven't tried.

The fact is, that instead of explaining your reasoning, your first thought was to go into armory and see which bosses I haven't killed instead. The time you spent doing that could have been spent typing an explanation, but just thought that your "raid experience" was an argument in itself. Sorry.

Look, if you want to admit you're wrong, you can do so without trying to blame me for it.
man KJC is so awesome, played a pally alt the other day, healing in a BG i kept cancelling my heals because i was so used to KJC i quit the bg logged back onto my lock :P
You haven't tried.

The fact is, that instead of explaining your reasoning, your first thought was to go into armory and see which bosses I haven't killed instead. The time you spent doing that could have been spent typing an explanation, but just thought that your "raid experience" was an argument in itself. Sorry.

Look, if you want to admit you're wrong, you can do so without trying to blame me for it.


Yes, I thought I made it clear that I haven't tried. I looked at your armory to see how much time you've put into your warlock. No where in this thread have I used my "raid experience" to try and reinforce anything I've said. I am blaming you for nothing, if it seems like I was, I am sorry. As I said, I have plenty of reasons but there is no point in listing them when you appear to like KC very much. If it suites your play style then do whatever.
Yes, I thought I made it clear that I haven't tried. I looked at your armory to see how much time you've put into your warlock.


Kil'Jaeden's Cunning has only been live in its current state for just over a week. I am really not sure how it matters whether you've been playing a warlock for 8 years or 2 weeks. I have played with it over the last 2 weeks like everyone else, and it blows the other level 90 talents away.
12/07/2012 04:53 PMPosted by Hoimen
Yes, I thought I made it clear that I haven't tried. I looked at your armory to see how much time you've put into your warlock.


Kil'Jaeden's Cunning has only been live in its current state for just over a week. I am really not sure how it matters whether you've been playing a warlock for 8 years or 2 weeks. I have played with it over the last 2 weeks like everyone else, and it blows the other level 90 talents away.


KJC is situational at best. For Affliction it is the most obvious choice because of MG and DS, our 2 main fillers.

12/07/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Hoimen
Or just take Kil'Jaeden's cunning and cast whatever spell makes the most sense for your fury status at the moment, losing nothing because the other 2 talents are about as close to useless as you can get.


Ok, let me put it this way. In my experience, I have not once ever needed to cast and move with KJC as demo. In the rare case that I did, I always had at least 500 fury in reserve. After 5.1 they took away the cast time reduction, but again, the cast time reduction only affected 1 ability for demo (I say one because you are only going to be casting soul fire with an MC proc, not SF and SB).

Shadow Bolt/Soul Fire are fillers. Save for MC procs, casting SF is a DPS loss. You mentioned that Fel Flame was a DPS loss, that's simply untrue. 2 instant cast Fel Flames do as much damage as 1 Shadow Bolt, with the added benefit of adding 12 seconds on to corruptions length, and generating more fury than that 1 shadow bolt. I mean I really don't know what more to say. The other talents are pretty close to being just as bad for demo, but honestly I'd cast Fel Flame and take the 1% DPS increase from AV.
KJC is situational at best. For Affliction it is the most obvious choice because of MG and DS, our 2 main fillers.


Demo's 2 main fillers are shadow bolt and soul fire, both have cast times.

Ok, let me put it this way. In my experience, I have not once ever needed to cast and move with KJC as demo.


Obviously there are always spells you can cast on the move as Demo. They aren't the highest priority/DPS spells though are they? Otherwise you wouldn't bother putting Shadow Bolt on your action bar at all.

Note that KJC also affects Harvest Life, allowing you to cast that on the move instead of Hellfire.

2 instant cast Fel Flames do as much damage as 1 Shadow Bolt, with the added benefit of adding 12 seconds on to corruptions length, and generating more fury than that 1 shadow bolt.


So you don't have shadow bolt on your action bar then? 2 instant fel flames do as much damage, but take 20% longer to cast and cost close to double the mana of 1 shadow bolt. That means more life tapping, which is where the DPS loss comes from.

I haven't needed KJC before either, as obviously before 5.1 it wasn't nearly as good, and we got used to playing without it. However, in its current incarnation it lets you run your highest DPS rotation at all times, and the drawback is negligible at worst (and there are a million ways to negate it - burning rush, unbound will, gnome racial, human racial etc).

The biggest disadvantage of KJC now is that you can't cancel soul fire (without a macro) if you accidentally fat finger it when you don't have molten core up. You can move, jump, or whatever and it will just keep on casting very slowly.

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