"Never Meant To Do All of Them Every Day"

General Discussion
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12/07/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Manaaddicted
I was unaware that the gear upgrade Ethereal was rep-based,


1, that didn't exist at launch.

2, upgrading a 463 to 489 > upgrading a 489 to 497, except for maybe weapons.

12/07/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Punyales
You can do them every other day. You can do them once a week. You are just seeking to get them as fast as possible. Still not mandatory to do dailies every day.


If you're trying to maximize your chances of success in heroic raiding while undergeared, yes, it is mandatory.

Just like gems, flask, food, and potions are mandatory. If you're not doing at least normal raids, you'd be fine not caring about any of those either.

12/07/2012 01:44 PMPosted by Garnox
There a plenty of options, including crafting, valor points, PVP, elder coins, holiday events and LFR to fill in gear spots that you may be missing. You don't have to do all of the dailies every single day to get the upgrades that you need to get past that 1%. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing if you say otherwise.


Crafting gave 476s. VPs had a cap. Conquest had a cap. Only 3 elder coins a week. Holiday stuff was 470. LFR didn't even exist until week 3, and then even that gives 476s.

It's really funny how Dailies are such a big deal. I fell behind so much and look how geared out I am. I don't do all the dailies everyday. No, I haven't ever done that, not even in Cata. Too hard...

I don't feel this invisible force telling me to DO THOSE DAMNED DAILIES


You're not geared out at all. Nor have you even killed a single boss on normal. You're not the kind of person for who dailies are mandatory. Just like you're not enchanting your gear.

12/07/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Kaganfindel
One of these days the word "need" is going to snap, and come looking for her abusers so she can mete out vigilante justice.


Need is appropriate. If you want to do something, you *need* to do other things for it.

If I want to keep a job, I *need* to show up for work. Or are you going to claim that showing up for work is optional and thus I should be using "want" instead?

Umm, Mister OP, I don't think you read what he said. I think you picked out the sentence you took issue with and posted a knee-jerk reaction.

Because he was talking about how the people who raid, typically ended up getting replacements for the VP gear as quick as they acquired the VP gear.


No.

Because I was talking about how we DON'T get replacements for the VP gear as quick as we acquired it. And how we use VP to fill in the slots for the gear we DON'T get.

12/07/2012 01:52 PMPosted by Ntah
Yes, but only you percieve you must have them in the next week or else. I agree with Kosek, nobody is saying you have to get to revered with every faction in the least time possible, that's just the perception of the addicted gaming populace.


By "addicted gaming populace" you mean "people who take heroic raiding seriously?"

I mean, my guild raids two nights a week and we're 6/6H in MSV, 2/6H in HoF. Sometimes I play WoW for less than 10 hours a week. Does that sound like I'm addicted?

12/07/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Garnox
They addressed this issue with the gear upgrade feature. If you really need those few extra stats and are unable to buy the particular piece of valor gear you'd like you are able to upgrade another piece of gear to get some stats that way too. You can pretend there aren't options out there besides dailies, but the fact is you are wrong.


And again, this didn't exist at launch. So you're wrong for claiming we were wrong, at a minimum.

Even if it did, if you have a 463 ring and a 489 ring, upgrading the 463 ring to 489 is a far larger bonus than upgrading the 489 ring to 497, so people would have had to do the dailies anyway.

12/07/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Lorthuron
I've suffered from RNG but the amount of dailies I do each day varies and I feel no force. It's just people having a chip on their shoulder.


Says the person missing 4 enchants without a belt buckle and who hasn't even killed a single normal boss. You have no idea what heroic raiding entails or how 1% matters.

I found your problem right here.

If you're doing heroic content the second week, why aren't you in 484 gear already. If you're doing heroic mode that means you have all the gear from normal mode.


Are you serious?

A 10 man group has about 160 items if we assume there's exactly 10 people. 12 items drop from a week of 10 man raiding. Even if every single item was used, that would require 14 weeks of clearing normal modes to get full 489 in every slot from raiding alone.

12/07/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Greenarciah
Question: Should Blizz design the VP / dailies around hardcore players, or the lower 80% of players? Because the interview comments seem entirely reasonable for the latter group.


Here's the golden question: why did Blizzard stagger the raid releases?
@OP, it was never intended for players to grind out every faction every day. If you and your raid group are having difficulties understanding this then that is your problem not blizz's. Trying practicing a little self control and your game time will be much more enjoyable.
I'll offer a solution that could have been implemented, though it is no longer interesting or relevant. Honored level gear, as it exists at the moment, would be available on release. The other 489 gear, and revered formulas should not have been added to the game until eight weeks in; thus removing them completely from the picture for serious competitive raiding, but not unduly harming the raid progress of laid back/unskilled/badual(me)/whatever raiders. With the gear unavailable, there is no rush to get whatever reps you think you want, and by the time the gear would be available, the reps would have been in place without excessive grinding; basically valor cap & coins.


That would have been far better.

Another solution I proposed elsewhere was gating the dailies like the raids. Something like

Week 1: Klaxxi/Tillers/Anglers
Week 3: Golden Lotus/Cloud Serpent
Week 7: August Celestials/Shado-Pan

12/07/2012 02:25 PMPosted by Meridiän
@OP, it was never intended for players to grind out every faction every day. If you and your raid group are having difficulties understanding this then that is your problem not blizz's. Trying practicing a little self control and your game time will be much more enjoyable.


So again, why did Blizzard stagger the raid releases?
You're not geared out at all. Nor have you even killed a single boss on normal. You're not the kind of person for who dailies are mandatory. Just like you're not enchanting your gear.


I'm geared in through LFR. I haven't hit normal or done a boss but I'm not complaining about difficulty either. Honestly my gear level is very much likely over for normal vaults and close to Heart of Fear maybe. I haven't enchanted my gear cause maybe...I just haven't thought of it yet, get off the high horse son.

I'm interested in raiding but I'm playing carefully and how I want to. If you're in a bleeding edge hardcore progression possibly true but.....dailies are not truly necessary at least not anymore. If you're revered with most of the factions on one character farming rep via dailies will be a breeze for you.

It just depends on how fast you want to progress, but be careful in your quest to gear fast you may burn yourself out and become bored and the next complaint will be you have nothing to do.

Here's the golden question: why did Blizzard stagger the raid releases?


The whole "THIS GAME IS SO EZY HRD MODES DONE IN X WEEK QQ"


Question: Should Blizz design the VP / dailies around hardcore players, or the lower 80% of players? Because the interview comments seem entirely reasonable for the latter group.


Here's the golden question: why did Blizzard stagger the raid releases?


Yes, that was a case where they released raids according to the desired schedules of the best raiding guilds. Does this answer somehow answer my own question, even in the least bit? Of course not, the release dates of the initial raids is a trivial matter compared to HOW to provide content to the game. The daily / VP system is fine for most us, and the interview comments make total sense, again, for most of us.
12/07/2012 01:28 PMPosted by Tristarae
Now, when you're sick of running the same dungeon over and over in pursuit of an upgrade, you turn to the vendor and realize you have days of rep grinding to do to get an upgrade. Especially if the rep is gated behind Golden Lotus.


The RNG god refused to give me any 463 trinket. Dropped once, loss in roll never saw it again. Then discovered it's between shieldwall (new) and shado pan(gated). So my trinket remains green as ever. I don't have that much jp because I blew it all on the ring that the RNg gods won't give me also.

12/07/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Sèxcellentt
It's weird that something called a "daily" wasn't intended to be done, well, daily.


I love you, man. Just pure <3.
12/07/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Punyales
Still not mandatory to do dailies every day.


Every time a forum hugger says this a group wipes.

So tired of seeing the same old garbage... especially from someone who is exalted with all reps. What a hypocrite.
12/07/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Worlocholmes
So my trinket remains green as ever. I don't have that much jp because I blew it all on the ring that the RNg gods won't give me also.


purchase one dragonling, and one darkmoon trink. tada. dailies required = 0.
Look, I get it, you feel that you have to do all the dailies to help your raid team.

I did them for a while too. They were fun. I enjoyed them. Around the time I started not enjoying them was about the time I hit exalted with all of them.

But some of you might not have liked it. Fine. Fortunately, there were only four factions serious raiders needed to bother with, and they could completely skip over Tillers, Anglers, and Cloud Serpents. (Oddly enough, in the event they chose not to skip them over, most of those factions had much lighter rep requirements, such that even without eggs you would be done with Cloud Serpent well before Golden Lotus ever hit revered; meaning you'd never have to do them all.)

But back to the daily bit. So since you're a hardcore raider, you're doing the two raid factions every day--Klaxxi and Golden Lotus. Why not, instead of bemoaning that you can't tell which boss will drop what you need, why not take a look at the actual boss loot tables, estimate how far you think you'll be able to get in the next few weeks, and prioritize one faction over the other? The only faction that's a pain to get to revered is August Celestials--even before the commendations it only took 8 days to get Shado-pan to revered for non-humans. Is eight days such a hard task?
So tell me, how many of you did 25 dailies every day when dailies were capped? How many of you maxed out dailies every single day? I don't know many ppl who did 25 dailies every single day.

Every daily every day? No of course you're not supposed to do that.

Once you hit valor cap for the week are you still going out and doing every single daily every single day? If so, why?

As has been pointed out, you cannot accumulate valor at a rate that would let you purchase items faster than you could get the rep.

Also, I cannot believe that you would not have finished off at least Klaxxi/GL before you hit exalted with August Celestials if you were indeed doing every daily every day. So that set of dailies drops off the 'must do dailies' list if you are doing them for the exalted quest reward. If you're raiding, then you're getting valor, so you don't need to do every daily every day to valor cap, and you're getting more lesser charms than you can turn in every week from doing the other dailies. So why would you continue to do dailies for a faction you're already exalted with?
12/07/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Lustan
Still not mandatory to do dailies every day.


Every time a forum hugger says this a group wipes.

So tired of seeing the same old garbage... especially from someone who is exalted with all reps. What a hypocrite.


Dailies are not mandatory.
The raid releases were staggered so that the playerbbase would not blast through them all the first week. Then proceeding to piss and moan about having nothing to do. See previous comment about self control.
Blizz is still in denial mode about dailies. You have to understand they've probably devoted a TON of development time to them and they're going to try their best to ignore the obvious (that many players hate them and even the ones who don't hate them just tolerate them for the most part) because that would be an admission that they screwed up.

I get the feeling it won't be until they announce the next xpac and start doing the "post-mortem" review of mop that they'll admit that they could have handled dailies better (that's probably as close as they'll ever get to admitting dailies were a horrible idea the way they're currently implemented).

This guy nailed it and sadly, that's exactly what they'll do most likely. Dev Watercooler Blogs up and down saying "Gosh guys, we thought you'd all love that 70% of the endgame was dailies! In our development meetings it never even came up once to offer an alternative path to advance reputations, we thought everyone enjoyed doing monotonous, repetitive tasks rather than doing something engaging and fun!"


Blizzard has already admitted mistakes with dailies, so you guys are being a little harsh. We just have to hope they actually follow through and actually add alternative rep gain paths within the next month or two.

But you are probably right that this will be like Cata where devs admitted early that difficulty was too high, and then they proceeded to alienate even more players with even more difficult content, then they lost tons and tons of players, then they finally swung to the opposite extreme and lost tons more players. Blizzard seems to love letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Their pursuit of the perfect option ignores that a barely acceptable option that is released quickly is actually better than the perfect option that takes 6+ months to deploy.


Well, imagine a 25 man raid.
Now if each person has 1 ring with an additional 100 of their primary stat, then that's essentially 25000 of a primary stat.
Now imagine you're wiping consistently at like 1% of bosses HP.


That would suck wiping at 1% for the 4-6 weeks it takes to get that "free" ring and neck.
You'd think that enough people would have gotten upgrades in those 4-6 weeks.


That is way too logical for these forums.
12/07/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Sèxcellentt
It's weird that something called a "daily" wasn't intended to be done, well, daily.


It's weird that there's an achievement for completing 3,000 quests. Blizzard, how can you force me to do 3,000 quests in one day? Not fair to casuals!
Wowhead had a recent interview with Dave Kosak who had the following to say about dailies:

A lot of people, as soon as the expansion launched, felt dailies were mandatory and started grinding their faces off--which is a pretty terrible way to play dailies. The ideas of the daily content is to always have something to do to progress your character. It was never meant for players to do all of them every day. I think that most of the players started to realize that by the time they earned some rewards, they replaced them with normal raid gear, or that they didn't need to do so many dailies to hit their Valor cap and get charms. I think a lot of that was a poor perception at launch and we did a bad job at communicating that to players. So they felt they were mandatory when that wasn't our intent.


Mr. Kosak, I'm afraid you're missing the entire point here.

You're correct in one sense: if you don't raid, your statements are true. You don't need to do the dailies every day because you'll always have something to buy with Valor (since your best gear options will likely be 476s and 483s from raid finder, so 489s are always an upgrade).

But what if valor wasn't your only source of 489 gear? What if you were doing raids? What if you were doing heroic raids the second week?

Then you don't know what items will drop. You don't know what 489 items and 502 items you'll get. You don't know what 463s you'll want to replace with valor 489s.

As a result, to make sure you have access to the valor item for the gear slot you need, you do have to do every daily every day (or at least the ones for valor rewards and 489 ring/neck).

It was not a matter of poor perception.

It was not a matter of bad communication.

If my last 463 is a trinket, I need Shado-Pan revered. If my last 463 is boots, I need August Celestials revered. If my last 463 is leggings, I need Klaxxi revered. And because loot from raids is based on RNG, I won't know which of those situations will occur, thus I need to get all of the factions to revered as soon as possible to make sure I'm prepared for any of those situations.

In addition, the presence of a "free" 489 ring and neck for Golden Lotus and August Celestials meant serious raiders had to grind those up to exalted as well, again as soon as possible to help in raids (unless you were fortunate enough to get a neck and two rings from raiding, but to sound like a broken record, you don't know what will happen so you assume you'll need the reputation neck/ring).

So maybe you didn't mean for us to be doing all of the Klaxxi/Golden Lotus/August Celestials/Shado-Pan dailies every day to max our reps as quickly as possible. But the way you set up the system meant that's what we had to do in order to help our raid team as much as possible.


all i read was "i need epics to raid, and i dont wanna work for them"
no u don't, i raided in blues and did fine
getting those epics from rep were just a bonus, but weren't needed, i already replaced most of them
stop complaining about dailies

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