Diminishing Returns

I regularly see Greg articulate things like this in his tweets and interviews:

I would be willing to accept the proposition that we shouldn't have two sets of rules in this game because it would make it harder to learn.

But then how can Greg possibly justify the current system of Diminishing Returns? It is completely opaque. The categories don't make intuitive sense, only a very small numer of people even know those rules, and the default UI does everything it can to hide them from you in the first place. A lot of the problems with excessive CC in this game could resolved if this system were overhauled.

There ought to be significantly fewer categories, you ought to be VERY reluctant to allow one character to span multiple categories, and the UI needs to communicate to the player exactly what is happening.

One way to accomplish all of these goals in a simple, intuitive package is to have immunity timers instead. These can display as buffs on the player, and offer immunity from the form of CC suffered for a brief period of time. A typical example from other games might be that if you are stunned for 6 seconds, you are immune for 9 seconds (includes the 6). This creates more interesting game play because it means that there is actually a penalty for spamming CC in mass situations (like BG's) or for breaking it prematurely.

Regardless of whether Blizzard likes that particular solution - and it is certainly tested/proven in other games - I guess my main point is that you can't say, on the one hand, we want the game to be easy to learn, and then on the other hand have this awful/cumbersome/hidden DR system controlling the most frustrating aspect of the gameplay.
Well said Ashin. If for no other reason than to make CC rules more transparent to uninformed players, the system warrants a change. After all, the CC alerts of 5.1 were implemented for that very reason.
12/10/2012 10:06 AMPosted by Ashin
I would be willing to accept the proposition that we shouldn't have two sets of rules in this game because it would make it harder to learn.

i know colossus smash is 100% in pve and 50% in pvp

i know polymorph is 1 min in pve or w/e and much shorter in pvp

thats just a cop out
GC is an idiot. "What good is a balanced game if we aren't making boatloads of money"

He's the ultimate "mmmmm I'm right and you're wrong but I'm not going to explain myself I will only toss pithy platitudes at you because you're too stupid to understand mmmmm"

If he were a South Park character, he would be one of the guys from San Francisco that farts into wine glasses and smells it all day.
While I don't really think the GC bashing is really going to help any, I wholly agree with this write ups premise.

Diminishing Returns are straight up not in the games UI anywhere. And they desperately need to be.

When they added the new loss of control function I had thought it was going to have that, but instead it's just a bigger version of the icon that already shows up when you're cc'd moved to the center of the screen. (Oh and an annoying red out on your action bars for some reason)

I also feel that even if you do go out and look them up, they don't really make as much sense as they should. For example, why does it seem like there's a billion types of fear?

Another reason I feel Diminishing Returns need a major overhaul is to open up the viability of different comps, it's kind of annoying to want to play with a friend, but everything you have shares DR which weakens you dramatically versus other, more carefully laid out comps which share little to no DRs.

The number one complaint for Cata PvP was there was too much CC. Then in 5.0 they added more. I have no idea why but they did so let's move on. If the game is going to be riddled with CC then we need a better system for Diminishing Returns.
GC bashing is always worth it. It's like bashing Bush. How could you not?
I'm not bashing GC at all.

I'm saying that I don't understand how anyone who cares about whether the game is easy or hard to learn could possibly abide the current DR system. I do think he wants his game to be intuitive. There's just little evidence of that in WoW's PvP.

Loss of control UI is a nice thing and I won't complain about it. Maybe Blizzard will expand it to show DR (tho I'm not sure how that makes sense given the way this UI works).

But note - even if the default UI DID show you the current DR system, it would still be incredibly unintuitive. How does a beginner know what the difference between a horror and fear is? Or which one of the three or four stun and stun-like CC's share a category?

I mean, to make an extreme example, I think the game would actually play better if each class had its own CC category and ONE CC each. Locks fear, druids root, warriors stun, rogues daze.. however you want to do it idc. Now I understand that would be too far toward homogenization for GC's tastes, but I'm simply making a hypothetical because, !@#$ or not, it would still play better and still allow for the CC-coordination concept that Blizzard loves so dearly in arenas.

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