They went about the Horde / Evil / War...

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All wrong!

Horde should've gone after everyone BUT the Alliance in extra brutal ways, so they'd ask the Alliance for help.

Picture Quillboar begging the night elves to help Agammagans children in The Barrens, while quillboar slaves toil weaving baskets in Horde camps.

Picture Centaur enslaved in the Horde and used as conscripted soldiers against other races, while some Centaur leader beseeches the Cenarion keepers to liberate his people.

Actual battles and fronts could be won and lost... not this 'oh one side is doomed to failure' bit
That'd be pretty cool, and probably makes more sense. Rather than Garrosh wanting to go out and take on the world's equal strongest superpower, he should've been, like you said, looking to beat up the lesser factions to advance the Horde.

Heh, wonder if that means Sylvanas would go and fight the Argent Crusade.

I've only started Mists recently, and I really quite enjoy recruiting the local races to my faction. Cataclysm probably would've been a lot funner if that was what more quests involved. :\
I prefer allying with the other races with promises of land.

Example, Centaurs, after being forced from their lands, request the elves for aid. Horde questing in Northern Barrens discover that Night elves are supplying weapons, armour, with a Keeper of the Grove there teaching them magic. Siad Keeper has to die, by order of the Horde.

The Horde use Ettins and ogres with promise of Ferelas and Diremaul if they aid them, using these beasts to match the mountain giants and other creatures. the Woodpaw could aid the Horde too, with promise of land and hunting grounds. In Stonetalon, instead of subjacting Kobolds, we offer them food and a membership with the Horde.

I also think fortresses and holds should've been placed all around the world, half of them don't serve any purpose other than to be destroyed by the Horde or Alliance. Different fortresses have different ways of being destroyed.
12/11/2012 12:45 AMPosted by Ximothy
. In Stonetalon, instead of subjacting Kobolds, we offer them food and a membership with the Horde.


Eh no I'm pretty comfortable enslaving the kobolds.
I like it, that also puts the Alliance in an interesting moral dilemma.

Should they care? Obviously they're not obligated to, but is it the right thing to do? And it's not like the Alliance has a really all that great track record when it comes to what we do to these non-player races.

Would also allow for some proxy battles, and more covert things. Have the Alliance supplying the races with weapons and training, maybe have it backfire once when one of those races turns back against the Alliance, or sells them out for better treatment by the Horde.
Wasn't there a plan for the Alliance to do this in Dustwallow with the Grimtotem at some stage?
12/11/2012 01:07 AMPosted by Gandred
Wasn't there a plan for the Alliance to do this in Dustwallow with the Grimtotem at some stage?

The Alliance does ally with and supply the Grimtotems with weapons, in Stonetalon.

Curiously enough, the night elves actually help the other tauren kill Grimtotems in Thousand Needles around the same time.
12/11/2012 01:10 AMPosted by Caliginous
Curiously enough, the night elves actually help the other tauren kill Grimtotems in Thousand Needles around the same time.


No it's afterwards, one of the same grimtotem from stonetalon is present in 1k needles, and remarks how pathetic it is that he survived there only to die later on.

(they shouldn't have attacked BOTH groups but they ere so loyal to magatha... /rolls eyes)
I like your style but wouldn't the Alliance be expected to be given the same brutal treatment by the Horde? Say if they became prisoners of war or some such...
12/11/2012 01:24 AMPosted by Grimtale
I like your style but wouldn't the Alliance be expected to be given the same brutal treatment by the Horde? Say if they became prisoners of war or some such...


Yes and no.

Yes when it occurred, but no because it'd occur much less often.
A good idea and one with a rational basis in historical precedent - large wars are often triggered by increasing encroachment into the spheres of interest of other large powers. This has been true as far back as the Peloponnesian War.

Unfortunately, it would have required hard work and planning on the part of Blizzard, whereas the existing scheme just required throwing some stuff together half-assed and having someone outside the company write a book.
I'd much prefer to have just shared the load

Alliance can't even be framed for doing something bad
Honestly, enslaving/subjugating the Quilboar and Centaur wouldn't be evil. Those bastards deserve it.
I'd much prefer to have just shared the load

Alliance can't even be framed for doing something bad


The Horde framed the Alliance for Taurajo pretty effectively.
12/11/2012 03:46 PMPosted by Vyrin
The Horde framed the Alliance for Taurajo pretty effectively.


Ah yes because there's no chance they actually think the Alliance was doing something bad, they must know they tried to do the right thing and lie to everyone about it.

/rolls eyes.
12/11/2012 03:36 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
Honestly, enslaving/subjugating the Quilboar and Centaur wouldn't be evil. Those bastards deserve it.


I wish the quillboar hadn't been played up as quite so comic-evil. I hope the whole 'spirit of Agamaggan' thing in RFK gets continued to ease them up a bit. They can still hate the tauren and whatnot but I'd like it if they weren't quite so larf-larf-hurrkruwell.

As for the centaur I enjoyed the quests for them in the new Desolace. It'd be pretty cool to see them pull a tauren and unite their old clans to form some kind of loose confederacy.
I wish the quillboar hadn't been played up as quite so comic-evil. I hope the whole 'spirit of Agamaggan' thing in RFK gets continued to ease them up a bit. They can still hate the tauren and whatnot but I'd like it if they weren't quite so larf-larf-hurrkruwell.

I'd rather Agamaggan become kind of a Horde spirit... Let the Alliance have some animal spirits and the Horde have their own set so we don't have another Hyjal debacle.
12/11/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
I'd rather Agamaggan become kind of a Horde spirit... Let the Alliance have some animal spirits and the Horde have their own set so we don't have another Hyjal debacle.


Good lord no, Varian is already bad enough with the whole 'Goldrinn's chosen (but he's not a worgen) even though Horde uses wolves and Alliance uses the lion' goofiness. We don't need even more spirit-totem-avatar silliness. Especially not when Agamaggan's blood offspring are getting roflstomped by the orcs - he may not be happy with them but he's still trying to save their bacon (so to speak) and siding with the Horde would just be immense silliness.
Good lord no, Varian is already bad enough with the whole 'Goldrinn's chosen (but he's not a worgen) even though Horde uses wolves and Alliance uses the lion' goofiness. We don't need even more spirit-totem-avatar silliness. Especially not when Agamaggan's blood offspring are getting roflstomped by the orcs - he may not be happy with them but he's still trying to save their bacon (so to speak) and siding with the Horde would just be immense silliness.

I don't like Varian being Goldrinn's chosen either, and no would would be anyone's avatar. We would just worship some and not worship others.

Say, the Alliance gets Cenarius, Aviana, Tortolla, Aessina, Horde gets Lo'gosh (Take away the Varian silliness), Hir'eek (Or maybe a Wyvern spirit), Agamaggan, and some other animal spirit. Maybe a Scorpid.
12/11/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
I'd rather Agamaggan become kind of a Horde spirit... Let the Alliance have some animal spirits and the Horde have their own set so we don't have another Hyjal debacle.


Let's not have the spirits of the people we don't like helping us :P

If anything, the Darkspear ought to drum up some local animal spirits or some of their own loa to supplement the Horde against demigods and spirits like aggamagan.

EDIT: Pyron why do you think Agammagan would want anything to do with the Horde, or the Horde anything to do with Aggamagan? He's a prey animal. Emergency rations.

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