Brewmaster wishlist *Feel Free to contribute*

Monk
"Better" damage mitigation (Either passively, via armor or other utility based abilities, increased HP pool or whatever!). We're fine on avoidance tanking (really strong) and we're the poster child for "active mitigation" but we really take it to the face when our avoidance can't be ramped up. Example would be stuns where stagger is absolutely useless in soaking up the damage being dealt by heroic/raid trash and take us to the brink of death or simply just kill us. If you're lucky you can get a Guard in before it happens but often times it ends up being *Keg Smash* *Blackout Kick* !!!STUN!!! !!DAMAGE!!! xDEADx >.< "I'm looking at you Mantid Swarm!!". You're not going to waste a 3 minute CD in Fortifying Brew just on one trash pull either and it's highly unlikely you had enough time to build ANY EB stacks. I feel this is one of the biggest concerns for Brewmasters at this time.

In the same vein as the topic above we've had enough time to see that Brewmaster Mastery needs a second look. Sure, more mastery = improved stagger. That's great but by all accounts we don't get enough boost to mastery from gear or reforging for it to even matter. Making Mastery a more viable stat/reforge priority might very well go hand in hand with improving certain aspects of our survivability on baseline damage before ramping up our avoidance mitigation.

Elusive Brew needs a more reliable way to generate. I know it generates through auto-attack critical and having decent critical "relieves" this issue but doesn't anyone else think there is a better mechanic for this ability to function then white damage crits? Or perhaps it's just me....

Keg Smash needs to have the range increased so it's more in line with pre-5.1 Keg Smash (However it still functions like 5.1 Keg Smash so we're not wasting a 8sec cooldown). Doesn't flow as well as it did before with the new change. A slight range increase should address that.

Blackout Kicks animation time needs to be adjusted to better suit constant use for Shuffle upkeep. While functional it's slow sweeping movement clashes with the amount it's use is required. (Another possible fix is to allow the Shuffle buff to persist longer then 6 seconds therefor lessening the need to spam BoK). I'd prefer a faster animation speed as I feel using BoK to constantly maintain shuffle provides a satisfying dynamic to the class.

Clash has been broken from the start. The pathing is retarded. It goes on cooldown when it misfires and it doesn't provide any other added effect such as a taunt like Death Grip or reset the cooldown if it failed like Charge. What good is the AoE stun when the target refuses to meet you halfway? That is a common issue. Why not do something a bit more entertaining like make the Ox avatar appear behind them and it punts them AT YOU (essentially a death grip) and once they land it stuns the mob? Wouldn't that be a bit more fun to watch and probably easier to animate and program then getting an enemy NPC to path correctly "meet you in the middle" so to speak. If that sounds too OP then remove the AoE stun. Don't really care. I just want something functional.

Black Ox Statue needs some fine tuning with regards to it's interaction with the Brewmaster specifically. Maybe just by having it out and based on the Brewmaster's proximity to it the Statue could place Guard on us when stunned (possible Solution for first topic) or increase our base armor or stagger amount further (Another possible fix for first topic). Guarding Brewmasters within range while stunned would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Not getting anything from it is unacceptable. I've seen mention that it places Guard on you when you're solo but have yet to see that happen (Not a damage issue for the proc obviously my damage is fine I just don't think it works this way).

New ability that "consumes" Gift of the Ox spheres. Have seen this idea floated about more and more recently and you can sign me up. People have suggested that Spinning Crane Kick could do it but you run into issues with which the frequency to consume spheres on a whim becomes too overpowered. A "possible" solution would be to create a passive effect where ScK only does that every so often OR just include a new ability altogether with a cooldown timer that would prevent it from being abused. Something in the range of Dampen Harm or Diffuse Magic's time range (1.5 minutes) would probably be acceptable and would still require Brewmasters to step around and pickup newly created or existing spheres manually while it's on cooldown.

Level 90 Talents need a complete makeover (Specifically Rushing Jade Wind and Chi Torpedo need to be removed). Where's the Spirit Avatars for Brewmasters (Niuzao) and Mystweavers (Yu'lon)? We already have Xuen (obvious choice for Windwalkers) and I know that all three classes already had a "totem" system before things were adjusted (Windwalkers had theirs removed) but this needs to be done. Brewmasters need a tanking avatar and Mystweaver's need a healing avatar. It's the "right" thing to do.

This is my wishlist for right now. I love my brewmaster monk but right now I can't help but feel we're not quite where we need to be just yet. Some people are going to disagree. They always do and to those I give a preemptive "pfffftththththtppp". If you couldn't tell that was a raspberry. Generally what forum threads devolve into anyways so....anywho We're all entitled to our opinions but we don't all have to agree on them.

This is just my take on adjustments I would like to see implemented for PvE content (Before the PvPers come in and QQ blitz this thread to death). Feel free to post your thoughts and suggestions in regards to our drunken monk tank (Walls of text are welcome).
The only thing I really agree with you on is that stuns on BrM tanks are very ugly situations, and I like your idea of using the Ox Statue to counter it. I would be fine with the Ox statue splitting damage taken during stuns or something. The idea isn't to make you invulnerable during stuns, but to prevent you from dying or being forced to pop CDs when you do get stunned.

As for the rest, most of it is very minor, l90 talents are fine, BrM usually focus on Xuen or RJW (RJW for AoE threat, Xuen for single target dmg). EB proc rate is fine, it's not as set in stone as most other classes cooldowns, but its consistent with blizzards 'style' for monks.

GotX orbs are also ok, they always spawn to the left and right of you and only heal when you need healing, so my advice would be to stand still while tanking, and if you start taking extra damage or need more healing, take a sidestep and stand in the pile of them. Then repeat on the other side.

BrM mastery is fine, BoK is fine, KS is fine, clash could use some bug fixes, but its pretty minor to BrM.
Overall I feel Brewmaster tanking is in a good place. Our active mitigation, while a negative effect during initial pulls and during stuns is low, is what makes brewmaster fun and engaging for me.

The only changes I would like to see, is perhaps an extra 6-12% armor increase on Ox Stance. I feel that would help take the edge off stuns and initial pulls, just a little bit. Once we get into our rotations, we are a very good tank class, it just requires for awareness and buff watchiing then say a Prot Pally.

Clash should be reworked, and maybe just make it a standard charge. Also Gift of the Ox is fine as is with orbs spawning, It is simple to just side step left or right, and even on movement heavy fights collecting orbs is not complicated.

TL;DR BrM is fine, just a little more armor would be nice. 6-12% more.
Overall I feel Brewmaster tanking is in a good place. Our active mitigation, while a negative effect during initial pulls and during stuns is low, is what makes brewmaster fun and engaging for me.

The only changes I would like to see, is perhaps an extra 6-12% armor increase on Ox Stance. I feel that would help take the edge off stuns and initial pulls, just a little bit. Once we get into our rotations, we are a very good tank class, it just requires for awareness and buff watchiing then say a Prot Pally.

Clash should be reworked, and maybe just make it a standard charge. Also Gift of the Ox is fine as is with orbs spawning, It is simple to just side step left or right, and even on movement heavy fights collecting orbs is not complicated.

TL;DR BrM is fine, just a little more armor would be nice. 6-12% more.


The one thing that does stink is that our passive mitigation is microscopic. On other tanks, you can get DCed and if you're lucky and your healers are good, you can survive to relog really quickly. On a Monk, you're a goner no matter what. To be honest though, I like the fact that your survivability is tied to what you do and not what stance you're in.
I too would like a little more Passive Mitigation. Personally I'd like more health, but honestly that's just Health Pool Envy talking since my co tank is a DK. Maybe even just tweak some numbers by taking power away from Stagger and bake it into our stance.

And for a quality of life thing, I'd like better way to collect GotX orbs. This is mainly for when I have to move bosses out of bad (Stone Guards with purple up) or kite them (Garalon).

Clash to work better.
My only real pet peeve is the active mitigation is required by us to survive tank damage at all time. For instance an easy fight like stone guards, my paladin can sit there for 10 seconds targeting the other Quieln that i need to taunt IF my Quieln activates so i can do it in no time flat. On my monk if i sit there for 10 seconds not doing anything, generating chi for shuffle or guard or purifying most likely I will be getting hit really hard, will cause the healers to spam or use a CD on me.

Basically because of the way our active mitigation works it become very difficult to multi task.

Imagine a pally had to keep SoTR up 98% of the time and then be ready to use an ability to get rid of the damage SoTR mitigated, that is what good monks have to do and i think it could be made a little less punishing, or make shuffle imo more like an actual SoTR, you feel like you can use it more effectively.
Only thing I would ever ask for on BrM is make mastery not suck so bad.

Other than that...

PERFECTION.

Minus the quality of life things like clash which should be fixed anyways...
Keep in mind for future posts that it was never said that the class was broken or that certain abilities we have don't "work" for the sake of working. No, that's not what my OP was about. It was about making things better. Minor changes on a lot of things can have a major impact on the fluidity of how a class handles. We take for granted a lot of the "minor" things but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be there.

BoK, KS, were QoL suggestions. It's fine if you don't agree. Same with the Gift of the Ox orbs. Yes they all "work" but that doesn't mean they're completely optimal or can't be tweaked. I manage my resources just fine but that doesn't mean I'm satisfied with where it's at.

Keg Smash was adjusted so that it wouldn't blow a cooldown. The side effect to this is we have to be closer for the range check to activate it. IMO the range at which it would activate before was much more dynamic. It flowed with the other attacks that require "Melee Range" allowing you to lead into your attack rotation therefor ramping up active mitigation in a smoother manner. It's more of a "Feeling" then a required and necessary fix but to me it would be a welcomed one all the same.

BoK is another example of this. It's "fine" the way it is but for the amount we have to use it the animation speed is laughably slow IMO. On single target boss fights it poses no problems other then sometimes it feels sluggish to activate. With the type of arc it visually provides you would think it would cleave all targets in a cone and add shuffle for each target hit up to 3-4 targets (increasing shuffle duration and making RjW even more useless). That isn't likely to happen so a tweak to the animation speed would be fine. BoK is something we use a LOT to keep up a significant buff. I find it interesting others wouldn't like to see a quicker attack for smoother buff application and uptime.

Gift of the Ox orbs again work. They are functional. You can step left, step right, they heal when you need healing but I'm sure you all have encountered those situations where the fights are dynamic and your GotO are all over the place and not quite where you'd like them. Will you stand in one spot trying to pop out more when you're getting wrecked and healers can't keep you up? or are you going to chance trying to move around and pick them up throughout the room bringing the boss with you and possibly causing trouble for your raid? Don't like either of those options? Neither do I. GotO is wonderful in those situations where you can plant yourself and not move and they're plentiful on AoE trash pulls but dynamic fights where bosses need to be moved around more or that require a lot of movement they end up spread too thin. Sure we have Expel Harm and or Chi Wave/Zen Sphere but neither of those heal like picking up GotO. Whats being suggested is an ability to help us out in those situations where picking up orbs isn't an option.

DKs can just stand around spamming Death Strike if they have the resources for it (which good ones do) which heals AND because of their mastery provides them an absorb shield when they do it. Just an example btw...most of the previous tank classes can pretty much do this in one form or another. Why do we have to run around like idiots trying to heal ourselves? and just to be clear I don't want to stand there and roflmao tank while healing but right now that aspect of the Brewmaster is a bit comical.

lvl90 talents "are" fine but lets examine what we really have. RjW provides shuffle, has a 30sec cooldown and does damage to anything in it's path. So essentially we have a cone that provides a buff that lasts 6sec on an ability that has a 30sec CD. You only end up using this once on a trash pull on average since in 30sec they should be dead. Lets call a spade a spade, it's another "attack" that just happens to apply a useful buff once (almost as an afterthought). The Brewmaster is a tank class so I could give a crap about more DPS. I want more Utility/survival. Between Spinning Crane Kick and Keg Smash/Breath of Fire that is all the DPS I'm ever going to need for trash. I'd rather have a tanking Spirit Avatar like Niuzao the sturdy ox in this place instead.

Chi Torpedo....don't get me started. LOL It would be better to have Yu'lon the Jade Serpent as a healing Spirit avatar in it's place.

Xuen is a DPS pet. Plain and simple. The fact that it "may occasionally taunt our target when it's summoned kind of when it feels like it and when some bosses are able to be taunted by it" makes it another poorly designed ability and better suited for Windwalkers. In it's current form it's never going to be anything better then extra DPS. Illustrated by the fact that in our raid group the Mistweaver and I slotted it for Imperial Vizier Zor'lok and when two of our DPS died on the final phase we both ended up having to use him twice on that phase and we downed him. We are tanks however, I'm not looking for more DPS if it isn't necessary. I wan't more utility/survival. That isn't to say Xuen doesn't have place in our talents. He has his uses as illustrated by my story but it's always where extra DPS is needed.

Again the class isn't broken. If these changes never happen you can still tank with the monk. Nothing is stopping us from doing that and I enjoy playing the class. However that still doesn't stop me from thinking of ways to make it better.
12/12/2012 09:40 AMPosted by Donasmonk
My only real pet peeve is the active mitigation is required by us to survive tank damage at all time. For instance an easy fight like stone guards, my paladin can sit there for 10 seconds targeting the other Quieln that i need to taunt IF my Quieln activates so i can do it in no time flat. On my monk if i sit there for 10 seconds not doing anything, generating chi for shuffle or guard or purifying most likely I will be getting hit really hard, will cause the healers to spam or use a CD on me.


If you can sit around for 10 seconds doing nothing, you can rest assured the problem is with the tank allowed to be idle, not the one that actually has to hit a button once in a while.

Imagine a pally had to keep SoTR up 98% of the time and then be ready to use an ability to get rid of the damage SoTR mitigated, that is what good monks have to do and i think it could be made a little less punishing, or make shuffle imo more like an actual SoTR, you feel like you can use it more effectively.


If paladins COULD get SoTR uptime to 98%, I assure you that a) they would in a cold second, and b) it would be mandatory.

Different tanks are different--on the other hand you don't have to do what DKs do and wait to hit active mitigation until after damage hits.
Pony.
Variable flag carrier
  • Final tier of talents should be invocations of various spirits. The Crane - to provide a healing pet. The tiger to provide a DPS pet. The ox to provide tanking pet. All short term. Perhaps all would add something to the current talent spec.
  • Remove 50% of the parry and stagger from shuffle and make it base. Shuffle should help, but not be so dramatic
  • Add a phase-out mechanic for stuns. Even if it was a per-emptive CD. Expect a CD. Push this. Perhaps Xuen could take care of this with the taunt.
  • Shuffle button that can be used out of combat. I want to be able to turn on shuffle prior to the pull
  • Increased hit box for BoK, Jab, and Keg Smash.
  • A save a healer's life button
12/12/2012 07:09 PMPosted by Ascetic
  • Final tier of talents should be invocations of various spirits. The Crane - to provide a healing pet. The tiger to provide a DPS pet. The ox to provide tanking pet. All short term. Perhaps all would add something to the current talent spec.
  • Remove 50% of the parry and stagger from shuffle and make it base. Shuffle should help, but not be so dramatic
  • Add a phase-out mechanic for stuns. Even if it was a per-emptive CD. Expect a CD. Push this. Perhaps Xuen could take care of this with the taunt.
  • Shuffle button that can be used out of combat. I want to be able to turn on shuffle prior to the pull
  • Increased hit box for BoK, Jab, and Keg Smash.
  • A save a healer's life button


I agree with the stun thing, but other than that it just seems like you want to make the brewmaster into a fall asleep at the keyboard and win spec. If you did all that to shuffle you'd take almost all of the challenge and fun that is brewmaster. In my opinion.
12/12/2012 05:46 PMPosted by Kickgruntler
My only real pet peeve is the active mitigation is required by us to survive tank damage at all time. For instance an easy fight like stone guards, my paladin can sit there for 10 seconds targeting the other Quieln that i need to taunt IF my Quieln activates so i can do it in no time flat. On my monk if i sit there for 10 seconds not doing anything, generating chi for shuffle or guard or purifying most likely I will be getting hit really hard, will cause the healers to spam or use a CD on me.


If you can sit around for 10 seconds doing nothing, you can rest assured the problem is with the tank allowed to be idle, not the one that actually has to hit a button once in a while.

Imagine a pally had to keep SoTR up 98% of the time and then be ready to use an ability to get rid of the damage SoTR mitigated, that is what good monks have to do and i think it could be made a little less punishing, or make shuffle imo more like an actual SoTR, you feel like you can use it more effectively.


If paladins COULD get SoTR uptime to 98%, I assure you that a) they would in a cold second, and b) it would be mandatory.

Different tanks are different--on the other hand you don't have to do what DKs do and wait to hit active mitigation until after damage hits.


You missed the point entirely...

I would like to see shuffle to be more like the SOTR Shield Block style CD you can time well for big incoming damage like Thrash rather than what it is now as a buff that can and should be 100% not that they make SOTR like shuffle because then they would need to nerf other aspects of survivability for tanks.

Ill just leave it there. Shuffle is not Active mitigation the way blizard wants tanks to "make decisions", it is a mandatory buff to be effective. I like playing monk and I think the most enjoyable fight so far this tier has been Will to execute well timed short CDs to mitigate damage. I would like to see more of this not less.

I also echo that our level 90 talents for tanking are subpar, maybe if xuen did less damage and provided a damage reduction while active, or if smething like "your spirit is infused with Xuen while tanking and if Xuen should be killed you are returned to your body!"

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