My thoughts on the Frost Bomb nerf.

Arenas
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12/12/2012 10:07 AMPosted by Nytró
You mean blizz is making mages balanced like how they should have been?

Funny that you use the word "balance" against a class that has one self-heal on a 3 minute cooldown. Continuous nerfs to the DPS of a class that can't heal itself is not balance. It's just nerfs.
They should make frostbomb explode for 50% damage when dispelled or triggered early by fireblast, proccing frostfirebolt.

As it is we can blow a freeze and fireblast the bomb for lackluster damage, or we can just hope the stars align and it will explode in a deep, or we can watch our !@#$ get dispelled and have 0 damage output.
12/12/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Koviko
Setting up frostbomb going off from full duration is now an important part and with a partner easily feasible, you just need to coordinate.

Mages can only put out one Frost bomb at a time. If there's more than one dispeller, then it's entirely possible that no Frost Bombs will go off. Frost Bomb is our hardest hitting move. Without it, we can't put much pressure on the other team. Without pressure, they have no reason to not burst me until I die. And with the Ice Barrier nerf, I die much easier.

Blizz is doing everything that they can to make Mage harder and harder to play without giving us anything to work with. It's just constant nerfs every single !@#$ing week.


What you wrote changes nothing. You need to coordinate with your team to get frost bombs off. That means getting others into full cc when your CD are coming up or you'll land a successful freeze. Everyone else has to deal with multiple dispellers but for their control spells. you have ways to force dispels with damage rather than cc. That's one of the unique strengths about the class.

That's how nerfs work. Your frost bombs got nerfed because the damage was too easy to set up for the damage it did.

12/12/2012 10:12 AMPosted by Koviko
You mean blizz is making mages balanced like how they should have been?

Funny that you use the word "balance" against a class that has one self-heal on a 3 minute cooldown. Continuous nerfs to the DPS of a class that can't heal itself is not balance. It's just nerfs.


You avoid a lot less damage and can control others. Do mages really not understand this by now? If the heal matters so much glyph evo
Mage dmg will still be good, youll just have to try a little harder, It increases the skill required yes but with the same abilities. you frost bomb the dps, the dispeller knocks it off, now you turn and deepfreeze the dps and another frost bomb and have the dispell on cooldown. You are now free to kill the dps'er. Its just making you think instead of popping all cds and kill, no offense but get over it lol
12/12/2012 10:32 AMPosted by Playpal
That's how nerfs work. Your frost bombs got nerfed because the damage was too easy to set up for the damage it did.


Any mage nerfs make me sad because they are one of the few ranged classes that can deal with braindead tunnel cleaves like what you appear to be running. Talk about the damage being too easy to set up for what it does. Irony.
12/12/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Inkarran
Mage dmg will still be good, youll just have to try a little harder, It increases the skill required yes but with the same abilities. you frost bomb the dps, the dispeller knocks it off, now you turn and deepfreeze the dps and another frost bomb and have the dispell on cooldown. You are now free to kill the dps'er. Its just making you think instead of popping all cds and kill, no offense but get over it lol


Frostbomb is still on CD, it's intended that you keep the dispeller cc'd for successful bombing.

12/12/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Sixorseven
That's how nerfs work. Your frost bombs got nerfed because the damage was too easy to set up for the damage it did.


Any mage nerfs make me sad because they are one of the few ranged classes that can deal with braindead tunnel cleaves like what you appear to be running. Talk about the damage being too easy to set up for what it does. Irony.


Team name silly. TSG makes for the quickest games, win or lose. I'd rather run shatterplay but paladins don't have the luxury of casters wanting to play with them
They should make frostbomb explode for 50% damage when dispelled or triggered early by fireblast, proccing frostfirebolt.

As it is we can blow a freeze and fireblast the bomb for lackluster damage, or we can just hope the stars align and it will explode in a deep, or we can watch our !@#$ get dispelled and have 0 damage output.
"hope the stars align"?

What? Cuz it's so hard to time a freeze or nova or deep with the end of a frost bomb?
People need to seriously stop complaining about nerfs.
Good players will adapt to the changes.
And quite honestly I'm glad they have nerfed hunters, warriors, mages since the start of the expac, helps weed out the FOTM re-rollers.
12/12/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Inkarran
Mage dmg will still be good, youll just have to try a little harder, It increases the skill required yes but with the same abilities. you frost bomb the dps, the dispeller knocks it off, now you turn and deepfreeze the dps and another frost bomb and have the dispell on cooldown. You are now free to kill the dps'er. Its just making you think instead of popping all cds and kill, no offense but get over it lol
what you described isn't possible since the frost bomb cooldown is the same as dispel cooldown.
12/12/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Playpal
Mage dmg will still be good, youll just have to try a little harder, It increases the skill required yes but with the same abilities. you frost bomb the dps, the dispeller knocks it off, now you turn and deepfreeze the dps and another frost bomb and have the dispell on cooldown. You are now free to kill the dps'er. Its just making you think instead of popping all cds and kill, no offense but get over it lol


Frostbomb is still on CD, it's intended that you keep the dispeller cc'd for successful bombing.
This. Or bait their dispel with something else first.
12/12/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Haryx
And Frost Bomb dosen't have any mechanics like Unstable Affliction that would deal a undesirable effect on the player that dispells
UA doesnt exactly !##%*@@@ someones face the way Frost Bomb did and still has potential to, but yes great idea! lets have this do absurd damage after 6 seconds but can be dispelled, however you get frozen in ice or some stupid crap if you do. that was sarcasm.
still getting the hang of frost on my mage and I didn't use the glyph at first.. its nice to have... but with mages having a blanket silence and plenty of CC... I think the changes are fine. Ads a bit more dynamic play to the game and requires a bit more setup with your team. I would have rather have had these changes happen then having deep duration nerfed to 4s.

As people have said, with dispells being on a 8s cd, just force a dispel first with a random sheep perhaps... or just communicate better with your team. if you find a good moment to cast bomb, do it, blanket the heals, then ask for cover after that. once you get a rhythm of it, the change will be minor. as is, it won't affect pve numbers, it won't affect BG numbers much because dispells are fairly uncommon, and even RBGs it will be a fairly minor change.
People need to seriously stop complaining about nerfs.
Good players will adapt to the changes.

Therefore, if you have an opinion, you're obviously bad. Maybe you should keep yours to yourself, then.
Frost Mages are the second most represented class-spec combination in the arena. That isn't by accident.

Dispel is not the issue because it's no longer spammable. The dispel protection for Unstable Affliction is nowhere near as strong as it used to be, and some damaging abilities have lost dispel protection since the last expansion.

Frost Mages could put out incredible damage in a Deep Freeze thanks to Frost Bomb. That's a massive amount of burst every 30 seconds. Other classes have to wait much longer between their burst attempts.

This change increases the skill cap because you now have to think ahead. Cast your Frost Bomb, wait a few seconds, then Deep Freeze. Or, you can use the Fireblast glyph and detonate it when you want, and it will still hit very hard. 40-80k is still a lot of damage!

If you think you must have the Fireblast glyph to use Frost Bomb and must take Frost Bomb as a Frost Mage, then the developers have failed. They want glyphs to be a choice. They want each talent tier to be an interesting decision between at least two talents. That's not the case right now.

If you think this change will destroy your class, I invite you to listen to any other player that isn't a healer or arms warrior and have them tell you about their frustrations in the arena.
12/12/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Koviko
Setting up frostbomb going off from full duration is now an important part and with a partner easily feasible, you just need to coordinate.

Mages can only put out one Frost bomb at a time. If there's more than one dispeller, then it's entirely possible that no Frost Bombs will go off. Frost Bomb is our hardest hitting move. Without it, we can't put much pressure on the other team. Without pressure, they have no reason to not burst me until I die. And with the Ice Barrier nerf, I die much easier.

Blizz is doing everything that they can to make Mage harder and harder to play without giving us anything to work with. It's just constant nerfs every single !@#$ing week.


This is why blizz thinks players quit after "constant" nerfs. Your class is still OP. Can you just ROFLSTOMP ppl now? no. Will that mean you have to play smarter? yes. Do dumb ppl like to play smarter? You answer that.
You forget healing was nerfed by 15%, and frost bomb can still do massive dmg if timed right.
12/12/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Haryx
I think that instead of the Fire Blast glyph nerf, Blizzard should has nerf the damage of Frost Bomb by ~35%.
I don't know if it was fixed, but last night I took the glyph off just to test the damage, and frostbombs damage was nerfed by 50% regardless of how it was detonated. Honestly, that makes more sense than what the patch notes want to do. 50% may be an overnerf, idk haven't done arena this week yet, but otherwise I like your idea. Its just makes way more sense this way. Otherwise mage play has become even more reliant, and entirely revolved around deep freeze.

It actually surprises me that people are fine with this change. Do you not realize good mages will be able to line up burst the same way they do now? I think a 33% nerf to frost bomb damage regardless of how it detonated would have been a better solution.
^^ This. People are still going to piss and moan about mages. It really fixes nothing.
if you think about it mages in general are bad against players with dispel..

oh frost bomb, dispel

oh deepfreeze,dispel

oh combustion, dispel

oh iceblock, dispel

if the damage on frost bomb was nerfed by 35% it would be useless for pvp/pve.

my frost bomb hits from 20-30k when the target is not frozen.


Learn to set up combos with CC and your frost bomb then and stop being bad
12/12/2012 10:12 AMPosted by Koviko
Funny that you use the word "balance" against a class that has one self-heal on a 3 minute cooldown. Continuous nerfs to the DPS of a class that can't heal itself is not balance. It's just nerfs.


You have 2 absorptions, a block, massive CC, and unlike hunter readiness..your Cold snap is on a shorter CD and heals

please don't complain, mages are still strong
o balls frost bomb now hits just slightly more than lava burst wtf blizz
People need to seriously stop complaining about nerfs.
Good players will adapt to the changes.

Therefore, if you have an opinion, you're obviously bad. Maybe you should keep yours to yourself, then.


Or maybe you should actually go learn how to play your class properly.
This change with frostbomb has virtually no impact on high rated players.

Maybe now scrub 1500 mages will actually think about when to cast frostbomb with proper set-up with teammates instead of spamming it off CD every time.

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