LFR loot system is deeply flawed.

General Discussion
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01/16/2013 01:31 PMPosted by Snötlocker
At least with real raiding you can actually pass on it so someone who actually needs it can get it.


LFR is purposefully singular, not a cohesive group. Reason one being that those groups were denying individuals fair chance at loot, reason two being it encouraged people to need on everything and engage in arbitrage to get what they want, which is the exact opposite of passing to "give it to people who need it".


Sadly you guys just keep trying to defend the the issues that no one seemed to have with the old loot system which I'm sure everyone wants back after having to deal with not getting loot 5 weeks in a row.


336 out of 400 people would "not get loot" for 5 weeks in a row if we were still using the old system. If you encountered large groups of friends or guilds more often than that, more loot would go to them than anyone else, potentially increasing the number of instances when nobody else got loot because they horded it all.

Pretending that is superior to an individual roll against the system, independent of everyone else's, is idiotic. You stand as much chance of losing, but losing doesn't mean someone else benefits (particularly when they're not winning four pieces of loot from two bosses, or more if they're getting fed loot by their buddies).

There is a particular problem though. This xpac contains a quest chain which ostensibly lasts the duration of the xpac affecting weapon choices and yet the weapon you need to make use of the Prince's quest effort simply does not drop for some people including myself. This has not really been the case before and people are left with their gem but no weapon to use it on. I understand RNG but the expectations about these items are influenced by the quests built around them.

We do not know if 5.2 brings more sha touched weapons or not. To then be told upgrades are out the window as well creates anxiety as to the likelihood the weapon will ever drop at a time it would be useful.

So please either say that 5.2 holds sha socket choices (and we can patiently wait) or make the weapon drop rate go up before 5.2 so those of us without a weapon can upgrade it like all the players who have had more luck. I really do not want to have to upgrade my inscription staff only to throw it away as soon as 5.2 lands.


You can recoup half the scrolls from it, and why are you worrying about an expansion long quest before the second raid batch is even ready? If we were getting ready for the non-raid content patch between T15 and T16 (or 16 and 17), yeah, I could see you're complaints being valid. It's still T14. Not getting a drop is nothing new. In fact, ou should be glad you at least have 4 (or 5 if you do normal/heroic) chances to get one compared to the 1 you'd have had previously.

01/16/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Secondtime
Why don't they keep the 15% exclusive rolls but allow people to trade? The amount of times I've vendored tokens for 50g just makes me sick. Trade, bargaining, interaction, and you can keep the "solo" roll system so people don't complain about guildies rolling for a player.


It's the exact same problem as the old system: If you don't have a mass of people with you, you're screwed. Why would I solo queue if I could queue with a dozen warlocks/mages and have 13 chances for whatever item I want every kill? Why would my monk solo queue if she could queue with 24 monks and gear up her ww/bm specs ridiculously fast and work on mw too?

Trading doesn't belong in LFR. It was removed for a reason, and it needs to stay removed for that reason.

The only problem with the new system is that many people fail to understand basic probability and statistics and since this system is new it gets blamed for everything even all the stuff that happened with the old system.


Just because the math supposedly works out doesn't make it a good system, especially when the system is 100% opaque. You can't deny the massive obvious psychological negatives of the new vs old system. Perception is as important as the numbers.


Perception is subjective. But it's not as important to how it works, and the new system works far better for the intent of the feature.
At least you get 28 gold per boss kill if don't win loot under the new system. Under the old Cata LFR loot system, you got zero / zilch / nada / nothing if you didn't win any loot. the only guarantee under both systems was that you got Valor and 28 gold for at the very end of the very last last boss fight of the raid. That was it, you lost out, you had to til next Tuesday to do it all over again. Let's not even get started with the ways others tried to stack the old system to their favor to get gear - Let's just say the new system is far more fair and less overly dramatic than the old one.

Anything that involves RNG for loot is never guarantee to drop for you when or where you want it, so get that expectation out of your heads. The guarantee is that you get Valor and/or Justice points out of 5-mans, LFR, Raid (Normal & Hardmode) to buy gear off the appropriate vendors. Once you understand that simple concept, dealing with loot disappointment is a breeze.
old system = flawed

new system = more flawed

lol
I recommend one simple change. Allow guild members to exchange items in LFR. Any item, gear sigils etc. One limitation, the person must be revered with their guild. This prevents guild hopping for loot while encouraging group play and allowing for gear to be distributed more according to the needs of the individual the guild. This should include sigils which should never have been subject to RNG in the first place.
Kayabao said it best, except the new system ='s no1 gets gear
12/17/2012 09:14 AMPosted by Malidious
After running a lot of LFR's... I've have yet to get any loot out of those bags,


that explains all that lfr quality gear you have equipped....right
no shut up go away hunters are fine.
Sha of Fear came out on the 20th of November.

I need Kilrak, Jaws of Terror.

Here is what I got instead.

I got two Tier 14 helmets and seven bags of gold. Including elder tokens, that would be 3-4 helmets and 10+ bags of gold. This was since Terrace LFR launch, to now.

The sword refused to drop. I got the gem before the weapon. And I am probably going to get the Socket with the valor from TK Raid/Dailies. Let me kill him this week and I will continue with more data.

I got it, it dropped! After how long? Man I feel good.


Gratz, although Scimitar of Seven Stars is a much superior weapon for tanking.
I was lucky enough to get one Shin'Ka from LFR Sha of Fear.

That said, I never got the two-handed sword from Elegon. And I've hit him I believe 13 times now, and probably used a coin nearly every time, which would be 26 loot rolls.

What I did get was the one-handed axe. And I've gotten it SIX times. I consider it useless to me, as I am titans grip. I also consider this ridiculous. I'm about to say goodbye to that LFR forever.

There should be a way to pass on gear in LFR. To avoid the time necessary for players to whisper each other and handle trades, how about just a "pass" button on loot, which when clicked does an internal roll among those eligible for the loot and presents it to them?
So, week 9 of Terrace of Endless Spring..

Boss 1 - Nothing
Boss 2- Belt that will go to merchant. Coin gets nothing

Leave

Come back

Boss 2 - Coin gets.. same belt I already merchanted.

Boss 3 - Nothing, coin gets... dress I merchanted LAST week

What a piece of crap system

The old LFR, with the ninja's, was far better. At least it felt like my rolls mattered.
They should just scrap random item drops and make you gain 1 raid point for each boss kill.

10 raid points could buy you a gear.
Raiding is about progression.

Players raid Normal raids in order to progress to Heroic raids.

If you are JUST raiding LFR, youre at the end of your progression and have no need for the gear other then "its cool".

So, why should drop rates be increased when you have no progression use for the gear atm?

All that would do is ensure you stop playing the content that much faster.

Once Patch 5.2 hits, progression will begin again, and drop rates in 5.0 raids will be increased so players will be able to continue to progress to 5.2 raids at a reasonable rate.

But, rest assured, patch 5.2 raids will not have an increased drop rate, since that is the end, yet again, of progression, and gearing up quickly at the end of progression would only serve to ensure you stop playing the content quickly.
For all of that, I had a one and a half hour queue for the first run, almost two hours for the second.

Nothing, I am not getting tier since week 2 of LFR HoF 2, and I am not getting sha weapons on either toon, and my rolls with coins, between the two are now up to 47 and that is just on Tsulong and Lei shi... What GIVES? Is my account busted or something?
01/18/2013 06:32 AMPosted by Altimax
That said, I never got the two-handed sword from Elegon. And I've hit him I believe 13 times now, and probably used a coin nearly every time, which would be 26 loot rolls.


This is how the system has always worked. I remember guilds farming Gruul's Lair for months trying to get Dragonspine Trophy There are items that you simply have terrible luck with, it's what keep players coming back. If you get everything you need right away, there's no need to keep raiding. LFR gives you a taste of the raiding experience. This is part of it.

01/18/2013 06:32 AMPosted by Altimax
What I did get was the one-handed axe. And I've gotten it SIX times. I consider it useless to me, as I am titans grip. I also consider this ridiculous. I'm about to say goodbye to that LFR forever.


Entitlement like this is a personal issue, not Blizzard's. SMF is higher dps, part of your current spec and doesn't require you to change how you play. While I understand why you'd want to be titans grip for the appearance and the feel of slower, larger, harder hitting weapons, raiding is also about working with the cards you're dealt. You were dealt an excellent hand, it wasn't what you wanted, but an excellent hand nonetheless. Far from useless. The only thing I find ridiculous is your attitude.

01/18/2013 06:32 AMPosted by Altimax
There should be a way to pass on gear in LFR. To avoid the time necessary for players to whisper each other and handle trades, how about just a "pass" button on loot, which when clicked does an internal roll among those eligible for the loot and presents it to them?


How about they leave the system as is? Personal loot is group loot scaled down to the individual level. There's no need to pass or trade items because there's no one to pass or trade to.
It is such an insult to have ground reputation after reputation to exalted so that I could have a surplus of coins and the coins are doing nothing for me, at all.

I am sorry, but 9 weeks in terrace of endless spring, zero tier. Zero weapons. Useable loot was a pair of boots and a pair of legs. I have gotten a cloak that I couldn't use 2 times. A robe I couldn't use 2 times and a belt I couldn't use 3 times. Why is this the only junk dropping for me?

9 weeks and only 2 useable pieces of loot when this character alone has blown 3 coins a week here since terrace opened + 9 weeks of kills? That is 36 chances at loot and I have gotten 2 useable pieces and 7 repeat pieces of merchant fodder. How is this "improved"

My mage? She has gotten a pair of shoulders. No tier. Nothing.. She's still wearing a lot of blues.

Is my spec messing up my loot table? I absolutely refuse to play anything other than destro. Do I have to switch to the 'warlock dps' spec in order to get loot?
01/18/2013 08:13 AMPosted by Tempcharac
play without expecting any loot.
well, since loot drops are not guaranteed, why would you EVER expect loot to drop right when you want it to?
It is such an insult to have ground reputation after reputation to exalted so that I could have a surplus of coins and the coins are doing nothing for me, at all.

I am sorry, but 9 weeks in terrace of endless spring, zero tier. Zero weapons. Useable loot was a pair of boots and a pair of legs. I have gotten a cloak that I couldn't use 2 times. A robe I couldn't use 2 times and a belt I couldn't use 3 times. Why is this the only junk dropping for me?

9 weeks and only 2 useable pieces of loot when this character alone has blown 3 coins a week here since terrace opened + 9 weeks of kills? That is 36 chances at loot and I have gotten 2 useable pieces and 7 repeat pieces of merchant fodder. How is this "improved"

My mage? She has gotten a pair of shoulders. No tier. Nothing.. She's still wearing a lot of blues.

Is my spec messing up my loot table? I absolutely refuse to play anything other than destro. Do I have to switch to the 'warlock dps' spec in order to get loot?


Raiding is about progression.

Players raid Normal raids in order to progress to Heroic raids.

If you are JUST raiding LFR, youre at the end of your progression and have no need for the gear other then "its cool".

So, why should drop rates be increased when you have no progression use for the gear atm?

All that would do is ensure you stop playing the content that much faster.

Once Patch 5.2 hits, progression will begin again, and drop rates in 5.0 raids will be increased so players will be able to continue to progress to 5.2 raids at a reasonable rate.

But, rest assured, patch 5.2 raids will not have an increased drop rate, since that is the end, yet again, of progression, and gearing up quickly at the end of progression would only serve to ensure you stop playing the content quickly.
I thought (and still do) the loot system is exactly the same as before but it removes the "human" trait of needing on things removed.

The chance of getting the gear is the same.

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