5.2 Flawed logic and assumption [T2 Gear]

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01/18/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Hershka
What is with you and this incessant need to have more power than your competition? Honestly I don't understand it at all without resorting to labeling you as a megalomaniac.

It's pretty simple. Players like to get better gear than other people, this is generally a staple to character progression in mmos.

I think the changes are good, but I can totally understand the desire to get better gear than most by.. playing better than most.

I understand the feeling of character progression, its a matter of transferring the mentality that power =! skill.

My two favorite times in pvp were during Tier 2/2.5 raiding of vanilla wow, when my guild would all face people in either BWL/AQ40 or their HWL gear.

And during season 2, when most of everyone had the same gear (rating reqs didn't exsist back then)

And yes, if anyone is curious, I was a duelist during BC and helped carry 6 guildies to HWL/WL, not that it matters these days...
I cannot wait to get a cosmetic enchant omg! I'm hard with excitement.
01/18/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Bashiok
Totally agree in principle,but I'm not sure we need to keep a hurdle in, and adversely affect the PvP game, just to give people something to shoot for. We'll have a cosmetically different enchant available at 2200 in 5.2, and going along those lines we're looking at what potential future cosmetic rewards we could add for various ratings in the future.

I really hope you guys put a number of interesting cosmetic rewards into the game that change each season. I love the new system overall and I think it will breath new life back into the PVP side of the game. But people need rating milestones with tangible rewards (even just cosmetic ones) that they can shoot for and achieve each season. It creates that excitement of reaching a specific target, and helps people create specific rating goals that are based on something real rather than just picking an arbitrary number.
What's the point of tournament realms then?
Then he dosd waddle waddle
I think it is a great change to remove rating requirements from tier 2, it is most definitely a roadblock fighting into teams who already have it. At the start of the season, gear was closer to one another and ratings had not stabilized.

I would love two things: added cosmetics based on ratings and a section of achievements/statistics for the current season that resets on each season.

The cosmetics could be anything, sets for transmogs, tabards, different banners held on your back during PVP (instead of green and yellow stock), pets, spell effects(arcane styled frostbolts, an elemental face on lava burst projectile, alternate sounds, casting animations) You could earn these on ratings and extend this system to PVE.
There could be alliance and horde based pvp sets that have no stats and are used purely for transmog. Similar in style to vanilla. They would not have to change the art each season. There could be a 1500/1800/2200 set. On end of season every thing(cosmetics, achievements) is removed, your current season achievements roll over to your main achievements and you are left with a clean slate of things to earn.

From what I've seen most of the elite multi glad pvpers like this change its just the rbg elites and people here that don't like it :P Also if you talking about that video with balmious or something like that, he got flamed pretty bad on arena junkies.

He only gets flamed because of his attitude, and controversy over his gladiator title. Other then that his video had good points, why do you keep referring to arena junkies? If somebody made a website "rbgjunkies" it would be just as credible. You get T2 from RBGS AND arenas.

He bought his title. He sells pilots and carries. He makes money off of this. He has a reputation for ddoss-ing, cheating, and lying. So if this change makes you, him, and people like you guys (sellers cheating the ladder), then that means this change is good.
01/18/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Bashiok
Totally agree in principle,but I'm not sure we need to keep a hurdle in, and adversely affect the PvP game, just to give people something to shoot for. We'll have a cosmetically different enchant available at 2200 in 5.2, and going along those lines we're looking at what potential future cosmetic rewards we could add for various ratings in the future.

Here lies the death of gaining a stat advantage over the competition. What is left to separate us from the peons? Skill? RNG? Those 2 factors may work against me... When I had better gear after rushing to rating before the big wave could get there, I could always point to my damage to prove how much better I was. And there were always late-comers pushing 2200 to farm off of if I dropped any rating. They'd outplay us for the first minute or two, but then our T2's would reign supreme. And rightly so! With better gear, I could beat better skill into submission with simple damage output. I wasn't bogged down by target switching or 123 macros. It was beautiful.

@Poppy knows what I'm talking about. *High five* brotha.

Stay strong. Do not give up. We must continue to lobby Blizzard for a gear advantage over the masses. They do not deserve the cool digs that we got. They aren't good enough.

They've never been 2200. They have no idea how to use the power that is coming to them. They are not prepared for the responsibility. The masses don't understand that we say this to help them, not to keep them under our boot. Honestly, they should be begging blizzard to go back to the way it was and thanking us, the elite, for the burden we bear on their behalf. For without us keeping order in the competitive ladders, there would be chaos... And I might have to move out of my Mom's basement and get a real job. Nobody wants that.

I'm all for cosmetic changes given to ratings... but they gotta be so good I can keep my income flowing. These baddies ain't gonna carry themselves.

Are they?

Edit - added "bashiok"
01/18/2013 03:27 PMPosted by Positron
Totally agree in principle,but I'm not sure we need to keep a hurdle in, and adversely affect the PvP game, just to give people something to shoot for. We'll have a cosmetically different enchant available at 2200 in 5.2, and going along those lines we're looking at what potential future cosmetic rewards we could add for various ratings in the future.

Out of curiosity, why do you think challenge mode is ok then?

There is nothing to push for besides best time on the leaderboards. Same logic.

Gear is equalized in challenge mode?
Rating should not provide power.

Their new changes still keep the rating based weekly cap. That needs to go.

Rating should only provide xmog, mounts, titles etc.
01/17/2013 08:17 PMPosted by Poppychulox
Just realized something. The people who are QQing about their T2 going away probably have self confidence issues and need the T2 wep to rofl stomp people who don't have it to assuage their self confidence.

I'm afraid you don't understand PVP

I think he nailed it. You will still be able to be the special snowflake, but now you will have to continue playing in order to reap the rewards. How is that A bad thing?
Many people are trying to argue Blizzard is purely interested in the money (Which may be true) therefore they go out of there way to attribute the general population of the WoW community which are casual players. It just seems to me that T2 is one of the most gratifying achievements for most of these "casual players" so what would happen if you took possibly the only feat in reasonable reach for some of these players who don't put much time into the game, would the "casual player" lose interest in the game due to lack of goals? I haven't seen "casual" players spam trade chat "LF R1 or GLadiator push", I typically see the old "LF 3S for 2200 to get T2" ETC. I think Blizzard will be losing money if they implement this, from both casual and hardcore players.

We all know why high end players may or not oppose the the T2 changes, but i thought I would look at the other perspective.

Funniest thing I've heard in a while


Stay beautiful.

I don't agree. I think this change is fantastic and will give me a reason to keep striving beyond the first three weeks, because no longer will I be shut out by a wall of T2 players (win traders or carries, more often than not). I understand that RPGs are about gear acquisition, but balanced PVP is not, and I am glad that they are finally acknowledging that the gear disparity between newbies and pros is insurmountable. Besides, this will encourage ppl to gear up alts, so that a win for players and Blizzard both.

I love this idea in concept and I'm looking forward to seeing it on live.
I've said it before - level and gear scaling at exponential rates hurts the game. It gives an esoteric pleasure factor I suppose to some of the playerbase, but it hurts competition, PvP, and creates an environment where level and gear mean more than ability.

A level or gear should give a straight line small increase that isn't insurmountable. I have no problem with a real good RBG or even world PvP expert having the same skill/talent points/gear points as an arena jockey. Make the distinction in non-mechanical rewards (hey mounts, gear style, cool pets works for hunters usually, minor glyphs that are unique? Whatever) that can't be had any other way, that is completely cool and motivating. But the idea that I could invest 20,000 hours in World PVP, RBGs, or even PUG BGs and not have an even playing field against a 20,000 hour player simply because of their arena time doesn't sit too well. Emphasize the skill at that point, make the players throw down and see who wins - that should be the most gratifying stamp of achievement.

Don't rob the 2200+ achiever either by making his/her rewards available to everyone - we all should earn it, else it doesn't mean much. I probably won't ever earn it, doesn't mean I should have it to be a little happier. Kudo's to those that do, just don't make it a right to beat up on every other player who's also invested heavily in a different track simply because of gear or stat increases. An even playing field for the expression of skill is a good thing I think.

I'll never be top because I play about 20 different characters thus I don't specialize enough to be the best. Doesn't mean that some acquired knowledge, skill, and occasional luck shouldn't allow me to beat a player a level or two higher or with one level higher gear - the investment difference isn't that great. I'd love it if the difference between an 85 and a 90 was slim enough that a 2200 rated 85 player who earned it could beat a 90 casual who occasionally runs a bg. That seems fair if skill can outdo a modicum of gear and level achievements. In today's world it seems like that possibility is ludicrous. I hate that gear and single levels make such a huge difference in outcome.

Linear scaling, not exponential please! Cheers for a BG where the 81 player isn't shamed out by the 84's because they have so little victory potential. Cheers also to a really cool set of unique gear and gizmos to the one who earns a 2200, I'm all over that.
01/18/2013 05:18 PMPosted by Positron
What's the point of tournament realms then?

There is none

TR realms are dying lol
Great change.

Pvp incentive is to win and get a title.*

The same gear (pvpwise) should be available to all. PvP should never be about gear. Also this gives blizzard access to more realistic and numerous numbers as "most" of the players will have the same gear..and can be balanced around such.

pve is a different game.

*Also yeah, no one cares about rbg's with all the wintrading and ddossing going around. Even arena titles/mounts that you epeened around a capital city with are kind of meh.

^ This
Do you really want to stop win trading blizzard?

How about you eliminate the methods people to use to win trade? You know the deal, logging off, alt f4ing, waiting to que into each other.

Making the elite gear accessible to everyone won't fix the problem. You need you take actual steps to permenently ban people who win trade. Stop bsing around the problem.

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