Err... ilvl 486 requirement for TK LFR?

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Love the people who don't seem to realize I do use my valor points.

Doesn't mean I will have the ilvl required anywhere near the time 5.2 comes out.

1000 VP a week. 750 to upgrade a piece of gear, anywhere from 1250 to 2250 to buy a piece of armor.

You do the math on that. To get fully decked in valor gear, it'd take about 3 months. To upgrade all of those pieces, you're looking at another 6.


It would take you 3 months to go up 5 item levels? Pug MSV dude it's really really easy. Proudmore is not a low population server so you have NO excuse.


What part of non-raider do you not understand?

LFR is not meant for raiders. It's meant to be an optional place for raiders to get gear if they're unlucky, but, as Blizzard has clarified many a times, it's meant to be progression for non-raiders.

I'm not complaining about this character. I have good luck on her. However, I have friends who are still sitting at ~ilvl473, despite using valor whenever they can, doing LFR/Sha every week, etc. By the time 5.2 hits, they MAY be ilvl480, which to me, is the ilvl TK LFR should be at.

3 ilvls lower than the gear available in HoF and ToES LFR.
And that's all to get into a LFR to REPLACE THE GEAR YOU JUST SPENT 9 MONTHS MAKING.

Yea, that's TOTALLY how non-raider progression should go. I love your logic.


Shadowmourne was replaced by level 80 greens in hyjal. Stop complaining.
What part of non-raider do you not understand?

LFR is not meant for raiders. It's meant to be an optional place for raiders to get gear if they're unlucky, but, as Blizzard has clarified many a times, it's meant to be progression for non-raiders.

I'm not complaining about this character. I have good luck on her. However, I have friends who are still sitting at ~ilvl473, despite using valor whenever they can, doing LFR/Sha every week, etc. By the time 5.2 hits, they MAY be ilvl480, which to me, is the ilvl TK LFR should be at.

3 ilvls lower than the gear available in HoF and ToES LFR.


The Thunderking is the most powerful and respected emperor of the Mogu civilization. Why should someone in greens be able to kill him? You and your friends can spend 1 hour in MSV and clear it and get some 489 gear. I don't care if you're a none raider so stop bringing it up. I replace gear all the time that I just finished gemming/enchanting. Did you see me coming to the forums to complain to blizzard?

So... dailies ARE required for raiding now. Guess that solves that question!


No they're *optional*.
So totally possible to get into TK with just drops and upgrades?


You missed the sarcasm and frustration in that sentence.

Now that you guys have to run the daily treadmill they're suddenly required. Bravo casuals, I can't wait to hear more about your plight. Perhaps we can all go to blizzard and ask them for none rep related valor gear or you could just ask for a lowered ilvl requirement and this whole issue can be ignored for the rest of the xpack.

It's not that I don't care but this is hypocritical. I thought you all did dailies for fun.
MSV is totally puggable now especially after the Elegon nerf, even the last boss is *yawn* did it last night on my main and one of the hunters was afk for 3minutes and we still downed the boss easily.

If you are too lazy to do whats needed to progress in a game which is all about progression I dont know what to say.

And yeah sorry but EVERY tier replaces the tier before it, not sure on the logic of QQ but Im spending time on getting gear which will be replaced.

Do you still use level 60 gear? cause surely you must have QQ'd your face over it being replaced when BC hit. Then did you QQ when WOTLK was released and (will not be named) expac after WOTLK was released? lol.

How did you ever make it to level 90 with so much QQ over gear being replaced and time "wasted" getting gear which was then made obsolete.
I log on 2-3 times a week to do some lfr and a few dailies, my ilvl is 480 (no boe's). Also coming off a 3 week hiatus due to boredom. Not to mention I'm a notorious altoholic. I don't think I'll have a problem getting 486 by the time the patch hits. Am I missing something?
Anyone else see the initials "TK" and think "Tempest Keep"?

No?

Just me?

Okay.
Anyone else see the initials "TK" and think "Tempest Keep"?

No?

Just me?

Okay.

I do. I keep going wtf do they refer to a level 70 raid.

Blizzard has said that LFR is its own progression and intended to allow players who are unable to join a normal/heroic raid group to see the content. Blizzard has said that participation in dailies is completely optional and non-participation will not hold back anyone from participation in LFR. Once the requirement for MSV is met, then gear from LFR alone will allow you to progress in LFR.

Mathematically, it is true. The reality is that gear progression will be so slow for most players unless they participate in other content that they won't get getting in to see the Thunder King until Siege of Orgrimmar is out, which is still 3 content tiers down the road.

Why do I have LFR queues of over one hour on my DPS toons for TES and HoF, and yet less than 20 minutes for MSV? Because the majority of players using LFR alone for gear progression are still stuck in MSV trying to get gear for HoF/TES. We're 3 months into the expansion and they still can't hit 470 from LFR alone because RNG from personal loot is so bad the items they need aren't dropping - and for certain slots don't even exist in MSV. Only 6 chances to get gear a week does not offer progression when each of those chances only offers a 1 in 6 chance of loot dropping, and more often than not that loot is something the player already has or can't use for an item level upgrade.

Blizzard is attempting force players into doing other content to populate their world and give their other customers the illusion that WoW is a happy active game. They told us we'd get options and yet when the alleged options don't offer equivalent value, they lose any sense of being an option and become a do it or else.

Non-raid gear should not offer a better item level than raid gear when item level is only relevant to raid content. You need a 470 item level to participate in LFR to get a chance at 483 gear. Wouldn't it then make sense to require a 476 item level to do the dailies, which offer 489 gear? And yet no, there is no item level requirement for dailies to get superior rewards.

It's no wonder that my friends list is filled with people who logged on for the first couple of weeks of MoP, said "this game blows" and then havne't been back since. Rewards aren't consistent with the skill required to earn them. Crappy content blocks access to interesting content. And Blizzard continues to up the item level on items rewarded through dailies while MSV still won't give a player the item level they need to advance into TES/HOF without massive RNG good luck.

Blizzard, just remove raiding from the game. You've made your point clear. You don't consider raiding worthwhile content while dailies are the most fantastic thing you've ever invented. Just stop wasting development time and manpower on raids so you can trim your budget and focus on those awesome dailies you're trying to push everyone into doing.

For those of you who aren't wonderful with math, here a sample breakdown of how fast you'll get geared enough to hit that 486 item level once you make the 470 item level requirement to queue into HoF/TES:

You have 16 gear slots to fill, assuming you don't have a 2h weapon.
LFR gives you about a 16% chance of winning an item, so assuming the loot you get breaks down perfectly so you get it 16% of the time and each item is something to fill another slot you need to upgrade, you'll need 96 boss kills (90 if you use a 2h weapon). That's essentially 10 weeks of HoF/TES, assuming all goes perfectly.

Now that you have 16 483 items, you'll need to get 7 of those items up to 491 to hit 486. to get those 7 upgrades, you'll need 10500 VP. If you're still only running LFR, you're getting 450 VP per week if you run all 5 parts. That's almost 24 weeks to get up to 486.

Can you now understand why Blizzard is full of crap when they tell players that you can advance through LFR through LFR alone? And that's when drops fall out right for a player. More often than not, they're duplicates of items the player has already received or share a slot with another item (ie getting off tier legs and a tier token for legs). Players will still being trying to get into HoF/TES when Thunder King comes out, and still wont' even be close to geared for Thunder King when the raid after that comes out.

They're locked out of content despite Blizzard's assurances that they won't need to participate in other content to progress.

Think about it - buying a new item usually yields a 13 to 26 point item upgrade for as little as 1250 VP if you do dailies. VP upgrades only yield 8 points for 1500 VP.

Blizzard is obviously trying to force players out of raiding and into dailies for gear. They need to stop wasting time, stop developing raid content and just make everything dailies.
Easy way to see LFR without raiding norm/heroic

Rep gear ----> Upgrade x2
Current LFR ----> Upgrade x2

More than enough for 486
Love the people who don't seem to realize I do use my valor points.

Doesn't mean I will have the ilvl required anywhere near the time 5.2 comes out.

1000 VP a week. 750 to upgrade a piece of gear, anywhere from 1250 to 2250 to buy a piece of armor.

You do the math on that. To get fully decked in valor gear, it'd take about 3 months. To upgrade all of those pieces, you're looking at another 6.

And that's all to get into a LFR to REPLACE THE GEAR YOU JUST SPENT 9 MONTHS MAKING.

Yea, that's TOTALLY how non-raider progression should go. I love your logic.


The expansion has now been out nearly 3 and a half months. Yet you aren't fully decked out in valor gear. Either your time frame is wrong or you're clearly procrastinating.
If you don't enjoy the game, or the game structure, play a different game, or focus on a different aspect.
To be quite honest I'm not entirely sure why people think running LFR is a good way to gear up anyway. Personally, I only run the LFR for a raid when we're no longer doing normal progression on it or after we've full cleared it, and then only for the sigils, because the sigil of wisdom have a god awful low drop rate compared to sigil of power. When I walked into my first MSV this expansion, I had mostly blues, and the tanking tier legs and a pvp back piece from sha of anger. I haven't used any raid finder gear at all this expansion and save tokens for normal mode raids. Once we move into heroics, I'll start saving my tokens for them instead of normal. Formulate your goal and figure out a way to achieve it before complaining about it.
Just because LFR is the dumbed down version for those who don't want to/can't find a guild doing the real versions, doesn't mean that there should be no sense of progression to your gear.

486 may seem unreasonable on the surface, but you can get ilvl 496 gear from Shieldwall/Dominance factions, 489 gear from the rest of the factions, and then there is the Sha, Galleon (who presumably won't spawn once in a blue moon in 5.2) and the two new world bosses all dropping better-than-raid-finder gear.

And if THAT still isn't enough, you can drop VP to upgrade existing raid finder gear. All of this can be done without setting foot in a normal mode raid.

There's plenty of avenues one can go to collect gear. You shouldn't stomp and have a hissy fit because you have to put a little effort in to get your foot in the door. It's no different from trying to get your foot into the door for the Heart of Fear/Terrace ones after getting at the Mogu'shan set. You can't get in off heroic drops alone so you need to make up the difference from other sources. Granted, you could have gotten sickeningly lucky, but for most people that wasn't the case.

But fortunately, there's loads of avenues to upgrade your gear. Whether you choose to actually use those avenues is your choice alone. If you decide 'well I don't like dailies so I won't do them ever, and deny myself gear upgrades!', that is your choice. It doesn't make the option any less accessable though.

Even if they do drop the ilvl requirements - which I expect, because people are going to stomp and scream about having to progress their gear - there's still likely to be some requirement to grab gear from other sources to get in, unless you're very lucky with drops.
486 is way too high for lfr. It's going to be a pushover anyways.

01/08/2013 04:13 AMPosted by Praying
It's expected to be lowered.


I would be surprised if it wasn't.
Love the people who don't seem to realize I do use my valor points.

Doesn't mean I will have the ilvl required anywhere near the time 5.2 comes out.
1000 VP a week. 750 to upgrade a piece of gear, anywhere from 1250 to 2250 to buy a piece of armor.

You do the math on that. To get fully decked in valor gear, it'd take about 3 months. To upgrade all of those pieces, you're looking at another 6.

And that's all to get into a LFR to REPLACE THE GEAR YOU JUST SPENT 9 MONTHS MAKING.

Yea, that's TOTALLY how non-raider progression should go. I love your logic.


You have chosen your path, not the other players, not Blizz. You have been given the tools/means to get the 486 ilvl.

Look me up. I'm in a mix of rep gear, lfr gear, 1 piece from MV reg, and my 2pc off the Sha. I'm at 485/486 ... I can technicaly get in. The gear in my bags would give me 486/486 .. I've chosen to wear gear that has better stats.

That all said ... I have NEVER capped valor the x-pac, and, I have only done every dailie available in MOP, maybe 3 times. Add to that, I raid 2 nights a week, for a whole 2 hours each night, which = very slow progression in regs.

Yes, I've been lucky on drops, but, I play about as casual as you can get.
They'll either lower it or allow the purchase of current valor gear with jp and offer a new set of valor gear.

My guess is that they'll just do the valor->jp gear conversion. Like they do nearly every big content release.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004697771?page=3

Daxxarri (11/13/12):

The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


Buying gear from valor vendors is OPTIONAL. Blizzard has said so about 1000 tinmes. Rep gear should not be needed to progress.

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