Err... ilvl 486 requirement for TK LFR?

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B: The whole point of the thread is how does a lfr raider who only has access to 483 gear at the top of their progression route, get to 486? Seems like it is not very well planned out.

At the risk of sounding snarky: Item upgrades? This is assuming that there are not buying valor gear, I imagine?

It has been answered already in this thread.

For those of you who aren't wonderful with math, here a sample breakdown of how fast you'll get geared enough to hit that 486 item level once you make the 470 item level requirement to queue into HoF/TES:

You have 16 gear slots to fill, assuming you don't have a 2h weapon.
LFR gives you about a 16% chance of winning an item, so assuming the loot you get breaks down perfectly so you get it 16% of the time and each item is something to fill another slot you need to upgrade, you'll need 96 boss kills (90 if you use a 2h weapon). That's essentially 10 weeks of HoF/TES, assuming all goes perfectly.

Now that you have 16 483 items, you'll need to get 7 of those items up to 491 to hit 486. to get those 7 upgrades, you'll need 10500 VP. If you're still only running LFR, you're getting 450 VP per week if you run all 5 parts. That's almost 24 weeks to get up to 486.

Can you now understand why Blizzard is full of crap when they tell players that you can advance through LFR through LFR alone? And that's when drops fall out right for a player. More often than not, they're duplicates of items the player has already received or share a slot with another item (ie getting off tier legs and a tier token for legs). Players will still being trying to get into HoF/TES when Thunder King comes out, and still wont' even be close to geared for Thunder King when the raid after that comes out.


Exactly, you are given choices on how to level, with some taking longer than others. Is this game not about grinding? You do not sign up for monthly subscriptions to be maxing out gear in a few weeks.
I repeat myself again, why does it matter if they are not geared for new content YET, if they are not anticipating on raiding in the first place?! That content will still be there whenever they reach the required level, and they can do so at their own pace, without having to worry about ilevel expectations by raiding guilds. You keep making it sound like these items are never going to be available through simply doing dailies, VP gear or LFR but the fact of that matter is they are. It will just take time and effort; the two staples of grinding in a MMO.


Here is another post I did earlier in this thread.

The problem here is of timing. Blizzard gave a distinct message that you can progress through lfr by not doing dallies. They did say it was slower, but you can progress. To turn that around and now say;

"Well, we did say it was going to be slow, too bad it is going to be INCREDIBLY slow. It's just too bad for you. Guess you should have been doing those dallies, huh?"

This is not doing anyone (Including the people who have been doing dallies) any favors.

Why?

Because the smaller you make the pool of players available for ToT the longer the que times are going to be. Make lfr 490 ilvl, I don't care. It's just the higher the ilvl, the smaller the player pool, and thus longer que times.


I would also add it is kind of a jerk move. It is like inviting someone to a party, but purposely putting the time on the invite so that they arrive when everyone is leaving. "Well I DID say you were invited, didn't I? Technically that was correct. What are you so upset about?"

It's just not a thing Blizzard should do to their customers.
I said it in a different thread and I'll say it here as well. You should be able to progress from one tier of LFR to the next with gear from the previous tier alone. That is how raid progression is supposed to work. Item upgrades and valor/crafted gear shouldn't be a requirement, they should be something that allows you to overcome poor RNG in LFR.

New characters who hit 90 in the next patch won't have all the time to build valor that we have. They could certainly get up to a 486 ilvl, but it will be more difficult than it should be to access LFR.
I'm exactly 486, and apart from my bracers, everything came from crafting, LFR, and valor. Here's how it breaks down:

1 476 from tailoring
1 476 from LFR
6 483s from LFR
1 489 from Klaxxi quest
5 489s from valor
1 496 from valor
1 496 from HoF normal

That's 9500 valor points spent total, or roughly 2 1/2 months spent capping points. And if I had been smart and gotten the 489 necklace from the Golden Lotus quest, it would have only required 8250 valor.

The 486 requirement will be a problem for alts; that I can see. But if you're not there yet with your main, you're not doing WoW right.


Blizz said dallies are optional, not required.
01/08/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Caali
Blizz said dallies are optional, not required.


Blizz said LFR is optional, not required.

Check twitter, GC mentioned that LFR rates for 5.0 dungeons will increase in 5.2 to help with gear disparity.

There is no such thing as a 'required' feature to play this game, other than putting in your password to log in.
I think the 489 and 496 valor gear currently semi behind the reps/dailies will become justice gear in 5.2 and maybe they'll remove the rep requirements.

Won't that make it easier to hit 486?
I think the 496 valor gear currently semi behind the reps/dailies will become justice gear in 5.2 and maybe they'll remove the rep requirements.


This will never happen.
01/08/2013 09:00 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
Blizz said dallies are optional, not required.


Blizz said LFR is optional, not required.

Check twitter, GC mentioned that LFR rates for 5.0 dungeons will increase in 5.2 to help with gear disparity.

There is no such thing as a 'required' feature to play this game, other than putting in your password to log in.


Daxxarri (11/13/12):

The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


They were talking SPECIFICALLY about raiding.

To break it down, dallies are not required to progress in raids according to Blizzard. Get it?

Dallies are not required for raiding. They are optional for raiding. You don't need to do dallies to raid. Dallies are optional content, you don't need to do them to raid.

We are talking about getting to a 486 item level for LFR. Which seems kinda hard as LFR now at most drops 483. Getting stuff from dallies is great. But Blizz said that dallies are not required to raid.
I suspect that even if the requirement stays at 486, you'll be able to buy the current 489/496 rep gear for JP without restrictions.

I'm kind of curious what will happen to the current tier LFR queue times (MSV, HoF, TEE) when TK rolls out. My guess is that they will be super long, and even tough to get going outside of peak times.
I'm exactly 486, and apart from my bracers, everything came from crafting, LFR, and valor. Here's how it breaks down:

1 476 from tailoring
1 476 from LFR
6 483s from LFR
1 489 from Klaxxi quest
5 489s from valor
1 496 from valor
1 496 from HoF normal

That's 9500 valor points spent total, or roughly 2 1/2 months spent capping points. And if I had been smart and gotten the 489 necklace from the Golden Lotus quest, it would have only required 8250 valor.

The 486 requirement will be a problem for alts; that I can see. But if you're not there yet with your main, you're not doing WoW right.

Blizz said dallies are optional, not required.


Your argument has become cyclical and baseless. Everything is optional. LFR, Dailies, JP/VP gear all are optional. None of that is required to play the game. If you want to get better gear and progress, however, you have to make some choices. The path you choose is entirely subjective, however your decisions will dictate the rate at which you do.

You want to just farm reputation for valor gear? You will get where you need to go in time.

You want to farm LFR each week? You will eventually get where you need to go, but that progression could go either way to due to RNG.

You want to apply both methods for gear farming? Then you are being the most resourceful and expediting your progression to the fullest extent.

Just like in real life, there is more than one way to achieve a goal. While all paths may be options, some may be more efficient and beneficial than others. In the case of grinding fo higher ilevels, the latter will pay off quicker in the long run. As it rightfully should. More effort = More reward
We are talking about getting to a 486 item level for LFR. Which seems kinda hard as LFR now at most drops 483. Getting stuff from dallies is great. But Blizz said that dallies are not required to raid.


LFR isnt "Raiding"
I didn't read this whole thread, but my answer to the OP is "Justice Points".

When new tiers are released, all your VP get converted to JP, the bosses/dungeons that used to award VP award JP, and the gear that you would purchase for VP becomes available for JP.

If you don't meet the 486 ilvl requirement when 5.2 launches, run LFD and the lower level LFRs until you farm enough JP to buy the 489/496 gear that is currently available for VP. Remember, there is no cap on how much JP you can earn in a single week, so you will no longer be limited to only 1000 per week like you are with VP now.
01/08/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Caali


Blizz said LFR is optional, not required.

Check twitter, GC mentioned that LFR rates for 5.0 dungeons will increase in 5.2 to help with gear disparity.

There is no such thing as a 'required' feature to play this game, other than putting in your password to log in.


Daxxarri (11/13/12):

The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


They were talking SPECIFICALLY about raiding.

To break it down, dallies are not required to progress in raids according to Blizzard. Get it?

Dallies are not required for raiding. They are optional for raiding. You don't need to do dallies to raid. Dallies are optional content, you don't need to do them to raid.

We are talking about getting to a 486 item level for LFR. Which seems kinda hard as LFR now at most drops 483. Getting stuff from dallies is great. But Blizz said that dallies are not required to raid.


Well, they aren't required to raid...

Will you get there MUCH faster if you do them? Yes.
Does that mean they're required? Nope.
01/08/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Tatertawt
I think the 496 valor gear currently semi behind the reps/dailies will become justice gear in 5.2 and maybe they'll remove the rep requirements.


This will never happen.


The rep requirements may not be removed, but they will definitely become available for JP. No one would waste VP on items that are a tier behind. In every other patch since they implemented JP/VP, they have converted all your VP to JP and made the VP gear available with JP when they released a new tier. Also, the current LFRs (MV, HoF, ToES) will likely award 90 JP upon completion instead of VP.
Two things come immediately to mind for the OP to think on:

1.Your looking at item level requirement on the PTR
2 Blizz wont make it very difficult to reach item level requirement for LFR, because it has become their bread and butter, meaning it is the largest reason this game continues to enjoy the sub numbers that it does.

The return to the linear progression model does make me think however that considering quick catch up has ruled for the last 2 expansions a lot of players will be expecting that method to remain in place. So I think it would be a good idea for Blizz to do some pre patch advertising with the message:

"Coming soon patch 5.2, come back now to have time to prepare your character to face the Thunder!"
After reading many threads in the last few months on the WoW forums, I would say the idiom of, "give them an inch" applies quite well to the current WoW community.

I GUARANTEE the iLevel requirement for T15 LFR will be lowered, and people will STILL complain about it being too high.
I didn't read this whole thread, but my answer to the OP is "Justice Points".

When new tiers are released, all your VP get converted to JP, the bosses/dungeons that used to award VP award JP, and the gear that you would purchase for VP becomes available for JP.

If you don't meet the 486 ilvl requirement when 5.2 launches, run LFD and the lower level LFRs until you farm enough JP to buy the 489/496 gear that is currently available for VP. Remember, there is no cap on how much JP you can earn in a single week, so you will no longer be limited to only 1000 per week like you are with VP now.


This was an option in the past. It is not clear if it will be an option in the future. There may be no added valor gear, so the current valor gear may not be down graded. Which is too bad, because my offspec needs help and it would be nice to get the "discount".

Still I just need the trinket off of the new 5.1 dallies for my main spec which I have been lazy about doing. I should though, I heard that grind is not long. Its just the whole alliance/horde war is so boring... But that is a different topic.

Anyway, the whole point is that to progress in lfr, you should just need the gear that drops in lfr. Outside "boosts" should be a help, not a requirement.

And with that I have to leave.

Good luck all.
01/08/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Caali


Blizz said LFR is optional, not required.

Check twitter, GC mentioned that LFR rates for 5.0 dungeons will increase in 5.2 to help with gear disparity.

There is no such thing as a 'required' feature to play this game, other than putting in your password to log in.


Daxxarri (11/13/12):

The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


They were talking SPECIFICALLY about raiding.

To break it down, dallies are not required to progress in raids according to Blizzard. Get it?

Dallies are not required for raiding. They are optional for raiding. You don't need to do dallies to raid. Dallies are optional content, you don't need to do them to raid.

We are talking about getting to a 486 item level for LFR. Which seems kinda hard as LFR now at most drops 483. Getting stuff from dallies is great. But Blizz said that dallies are not required to raid.

You use this quote quite a bit and it's getting a little annoying TBH. Daxx is talking about progression, not LFR. LFR is not progression. Blizzard may have stated that LFR can be considered as progression for some players, but it's not. LFR is the place you go where you can have no idea how to play your class, gem, enchant, etc., and still collect loot.

Yes, dailies are optional. As stated previously you can get to 486 completely with LFR, it will take a while, but you have time. You had the entire time from the release until when the raid is released in a couple of months. If you choose not to do dailies that's completely on you, at this rate I'm pretty sure you could've gotten revered on every faction by only doing one faction at a time (doing golden lotus until revered before moving to klaxxi for example).

LFR may not necessarily be the most optimal way to get to 486, but since it's possible, Daxx wasn't necessarily lying to you. Regardless of when you get to LFR, you're likely to have very little wipes, so if you get there on release or 2 months after, it's going to be the same content for you. Since you don't need the gear to raid normals, you'd then have the entire tier to focus solely on LFR.

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