The Worst Idea Ever Conceived by Blizzard PT2

General Discussion
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PvP should never be about gear, having rating requirements in the first place severly hurt the competition at the 1.8k-2.2k level. I for one am glad this change is going through. I've been 2.5k before, and over 2.2k multiple times. But t2 should require the t1 peice as it does now, to prevent people from simply stacking CP as they get close to 27000. Though CP is capped at 3k, so that shouldn't be much of an issue anways.

EDIT: Im actually a bit partial to simply giving full sets of PvP gear away for free to be used in world PvP/bgs/arenas whenever you want (simply would be unusable in PvE instances, or just do massively reduced damage to NPCs that weren't in a PvP instance so that its worse then leveling items). Though that would take a lot of the progression feeling for those that like that, so likely won't happen.
Despite all the arguments.... the skilled and coordinated will still dominate PvP. The move simply attempts to remove gear from the equation.
All I see from QQ like this is "QQ i cant haz the better gear now! my E-peen isnt going to always be the biggest" Seriously? If your a true PVPer you finally can brag in every ones face when you win. People that got beat before say "its only cuz they had better gear" no the case anymore now when you beat someone you put your finger in their face and scream "STAY DOWN YOU DONT EVEN HAVE A CHANCE" cuz you beat them on an even playing field. I dont look at this as "ZOMG Free Gear!" I look at this like its a skill test.

I see this as making arena exactly that. Gladiators going toe to toe and fighting to the death. Pushing them selves to the max and only a few emerge victorious. You all grab the equipment you need as you leave the tunnel and do battle with what you picked.

I see the frustration from both sides. I havent always had time to do pvp and I have never been +2200 but i always have fun pvping. I see the gear was like a trophy to some and I do think players that do earn that rating and hold it should be able to get some kind of award maybe a cool transmog piece? But in all honesty I support the change because like I tried to illustrate before, it brings out the true essence of PVP... Skill

I think.. I'm in love.. ;D
I approve the 5.2 system!!! Skill>Gear is win for PvP

For a long time I have thought PVP in wow seemed to make little sense in terms of fairness. Class imbalances distorted ladders only to be rewarded by better gear to help the imbalanced transition into dominance.
I still dislike the idea of 4 tiers of pvp gear but i get the fact that there needs to be synergy with pve content so players aren't forced into pvp to fill gear, kinda how we feel about dailies right now. So this part I will have to just accept.

I do believe that PvP should be more like FPS games where we are given the same choices and thrown together to see who is the most skilled. Having one PvP gear, akin to challenge mode system, would achieve total fairness. Maybe we can see this in the future .

I like the catch-up system . It allows players to catch-up but they have to be willing to put in the time, no handouts. While players have to grind more in the proposed system to catch-up and this may widen the gear gap between casual players and more dedicated , casual players should be accustomed to being behind.

More vanity items for PvP is more than welcomed. Especially unique weapon enchants , which reminds me of Diablo, I wondered when that would transition to wow.
So when do we get to raid on normal for our heroic gear?
Posting on behalf of Darkdk:

"I'm surprised to see all this hate on Psyops. It's easier to diss the player, rather than try to refute his points, as seen in this thread. You can easily watch him do RBG's daily with his 2600+ group on Twitch, and win without any of the sketchy things he's being accused of here. High rated players don't care if others have t2. Leveling the playing field isn't the issue at all, it's the fact "elite" gear can be obtained with no effort, and the issues that follow with the change.

Just apply this to PvE. Obviously the high-end players don't use their gear to literally kill their competition easier, but it does allow them to push content easier and progress farther than other groups/guilds. Much like high rated arena players use their t2 to push rating easier. So why can't you LFR and get heroic gear? Or that shiny heroic wep off the last boss? (t2) If Skill > Gear concept was applied to PvE, the heroic gear wouldn't matter. And all Hardmode bosses would be balanced to be killed without stacking classes or heroic gear.

My main concern with this is arena. Arena Participation is down by 54% compared to last season (Pulled from api counting only arena teams with 20 games or more). This is due to RBG's providing far easier rating with a little more time involvement. With the new change, RBG participation will increase, and Arena Participation will drop ever further. If you only arena, you're going to fall massively behind. Especially now that all t2 gear has superior stats, and costs conquest. No casual should Arena after this change, unless it's only to get a few extra points if you don't want to RBG for your full cap. If you're a 1800 arena player right now you can easily get 2.2k in RBG's with a decent group with the inflation in RBG's. This is going to hurt arena a lot more than "leveling the playing field" is worth. If they just lowered the t2 requirement to say, 1800. It would still practically require RBG's for competitive players, but it wouldn't hurt Arena's as massively as it is now. As 1800 for an average player requires less time than 1800 in RBG's.

The 2.2k cosmetic items is a joke. Unless it's restricted to Arena Only, it wont make the player players feel like a special lil snowflake with RBG rating being very easy to obtain next season. They are applying the rating inflation concept similar to the dmg/health buffs they apply to raids after a while, so apply the rating change as well. I'd love to be able to just do LFR weekly and get heroic tier gear/weapons & compete in "high level" hardmode PvE. You guys have said about 100 times throughout this thread, "why does a better player feel entitled to better gear than me in arena." So why does a better raid group need better gear than me as well? If they're a more coordinated raid, it shouldn't matter if i can get Heroic gear/Heroic Weapon off LFR. "Skill > Gear" right?"
agree with Darkdk/Urgash's post
The rating requirement on gear is a good thing, it gives people something to work for and a sense of accomplishment once you have finally obtained you GLORIOUS tier 2 gear. Now the feeling will never be there for the newer players to ever experience, that surge of joy knowing that you can walk around your main city, and look like someone glowing with huge amounts of swagger. Now it will be is "Oh, looks like you capped your points every week bruhskie..... meh," I do not think that should be what PvP should be. A wall is good, remember the times of old, when vanilla raiding was viewed by less then 1% of its players? When you killed a boss in Naxxramus 40 or AQ, you felt like you just did something awesome. That is how it feels when you get your tier 2 gear with your bros. THE REASON IT FELT SO GOOD WAS THAT YOU KNOW YOU WERE A PLAYER HANGING WITH THE ELITE! Tier 2 gear shows people that yes, you can get 2200, and you are above people that can not get it. Getting tier 2 gear is the PvP equivalent of rolling around with that hawt new raid set. Now dargon slayers, not the LFR hero PvEers but the hardcore, pre-pot on trash, type of dargon slayers, how would you feel about LFR, you do not like it, because it gives the raid gear that you work hard at to the noobs that pull 8k dps on an AOE fight. You want it to be something that shows off your PVE swagger, so they made challenge mode gear, the equivalent of tier 2 gear for PVE, was able to be obtained by someone who just caps out on valor every week. This will make motivation for new PVPers not want to push to higher rating, trying to get closer and closer to that DERISHOUS tier 2, but to cap out points every week and maybe get a higher rating so you could get MORE points, that is not a good way to promote PVP. I think that tier 2 should stay the way it is, so people have something to work for besides a slightly bigger cap on that next Tuesday. Tier 2 gear should be something that shows skill, and your swag to all friends and foes, don't make it the 2nd badge gear, keeping it how it is would be the BEST decision you have made in a long time. Forum bros, help out PVP and make it show that tier 2 gear is something the GOOD players have, not the ones that cap out.
This thread was Stomped with the very first reply. Dont see that often around here. Making Standard Gear available to all, Evens the playing field and allows Skill to be exhibited. Best decision Blizz has made regarding PVP in YEARS.
I've always wondered why people who claim to be the most skilled would either want or feel a need for a piece of gear to do part of the work for them.

Posted by Janjanson
Honest answer please, do you believe you deserve T2?

I do.

This is a computer game.

I pay the same subscription fee as you.

- The rationale of most of the people in favor of this change. Do you deserve the same GPA as a student who works more diligently than you in university simply because you pay the same amount in tuition as the latter student? Of course not, that is an idiotic assertion.

There is a glaring problem with your counterpoint... mainly being that (as mentioned in the quote you provided) this is a GAME... that's right, a GAME (and not a learning institution).

Your GPA could very well affect the rest of your life, and possibly even the lives of those that depend upon your knowledge (in some cases)... but your skill in a GAME is unlikely to ever affect anything other than your ego.

So in the end, a paying customer can say "I pay the same, I get the same"... and if the game providers agree, then there you go. And if the provider says "nah", then the customer is free to go if it means that much to him. No harm, no foul (either way), because it is just a game.
01/21/2013 10:54 PMPosted by Shrinkydink
I've always wondered why people who claim to be the most skilled would either want or feel a need for a piece of gear to do part of the work for them.

A little over 7 years ago, a small group of (younger) friends of mine were telling me about the "awesome" game, WoW. They explained the mechanics to me, how raid progression worked, and how much practice it took to be a good raider.

I asked why they would spend so much time on one dungeon (10 hours a week, for a couple of weeks, on a single boss was pretty common back then). They said "for better gear"... to which I said, "If you are already best on your server (and they were), why on earth would you need better gear? That would seem like the LAST thing that you need."

I never got an answer... still haven't.
- The rationale of most of the people in favor of this change. Do you deserve the same GPA as a student who works more diligently than you in university simply because you pay the same amount in tuition as the latter student? Of course not, that is an idiotic assertion.

They don't get the same GPA. Better players get better ratings. Better students get better grades. The difference is that the better students aren't the only ones who get textbooks.

We don't play football games where only the high ranked team has helmets, or basketball games where only the championship team has access to sneakers, or hockey games where only a division winner gets skates and sticks. So the argument is that if the gear is required to participate meaningfully, then limiting access to the gear makes it so that people can't even compete in the first place.

Higher arena ratings should mean something. It just doesn't have to mean exclusive use of the gear that is used to participate in the activity. As for the "but it's like heroic PvE gear" argument, the answer to that is that heroic raid bosses don't get better equipped as time progresses. Gearing up slowly works there because eventually you reach a point where you can compete (assuming skill, of course). In PvP, your "heroic" opponents keep gearing up and extending the gap.

Get outta here with your logic and reasoning and all that fancy schmansy stuff.

EDIT: On a more serious note, well said.
01/21/2013 08:11 PMPosted by Njgodfather
So when do we get to raid on normal for our heroic gear?

Well.. Your not a 'Heroic pvper' soo, not to sure you understand the distiction between pve & pvp.. Infact the difficulty level of fighting in a rated BG and a random bg or starting new arenas for that matter is no different.. Any maxed lvl player can join a rbg/rated bg/ or arena without a gear score cost. In pve however regular and heroic challanges obviously differ in difficulty thus requiring better gear stats, as has been explained a multitude of times, in this very forum by your more intelligent peers..

P.s. You can't pull a mirror from a male belf and replace it with a book without getting a few scratches.. I'm I right xD.. ahahaha

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