Worried about public rep, and game play

Paladin
Hello folks.

I am here to cry a bit, but also for some serious advise.

I have been kicked out of one dungeon and one raid in the last ten days.
The dungeon, because of my failure as a Protection Paladin (this has vastly improved with additional homework), and the Raid (today), for various reasons (ie. iLvL, Taunting at wrong time, etc), it was also suggested that I was being a "Smart A$$" in chat????? which left me completely shocked/shocked!?!!

I am getting scared and lost here.
I do not want a bad reputation for this toon, but I do want to obtain being the best I can.
It was suggested that I ask questions as we proceed in dungeons & Raids, but in the Random dungeon/Raid queue and then in non-stop game play is awful inconvenient for me as I can either type, or tankadin...I am unable, unskilled enough, to do both.

I have read tons of different forums, blogs, and posts regarding how to be a tank, but feel I am pissing off my fellow players, and missing something very fundamental.

Am I using the wrong addons, and I missing something in game play, what?
Apparently other players are noting what I am doing, and how it is affecting the various NPC's, but I am apparently missing it.

I know that you can not answer most of this, but I am scared and depressed.

I am not looking for a shoulder to cry on, I have my wife for that, I am looking for what I am missing, before I start getting kicked on arrival.

A tank is what I want to be

Please help as you can

Signed
Scared and depressed :'(

Siseihra
Undermine
First and foremost you're going to have to get a thicker skin, especially when playing with random players.

I don't say that to be mean, it's just a fact of playing any social game. There are jerks, you have to deal with jerks.

Here is a guide with all the general information you need.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7005430614?page=1

At a glance you have some glaring problems, such as using a lot of Intellect and Agility gear which do nothing for a Prot Paladin.

Take some time to go over the guide, it has all the basics you need to pick up on. Afterword you'll be able to ask more specific questions.
Everyone notices what you're doing because by design, tanks are the focal point of the entire group, it can be one of the most stressful and encounter-breaking jobs.

As for reputation, if you're talking about people from raid finder and dungeon finder, nobody is going to remember even the world's worst tank even ten minutes after and it's fairly likely you will never see any of them again. You could zone in wearing nothing but a dress, ninja pull a boss and afk out and nobody would even remember you. But don't do that.

Most raid finder bosses have specific times that the tanks need to switch. When you get into a group, just whisper the other tank to say when they want you to taunt and they should take it as you giving them the main tank role, but make sure you read the boss entries in the dungeon journal. Most of the things that are relevant to taunting and trading are highlighted as important for tanks.
Thanks folks.....

I am deathly aware of my armour deficiencies, and am currently working to correct the issues, as currency allows ;P

should I just consider this to be cases and people in a bad mood the?
Tough skinned is not my problem....wore a badge for many years in RL.....I am concerned that I am seriously screwing up badly....if I am no better than the rest, then so be it....folks can be in a bad mood.....get this myself in BG's.....everyone hits a sore point to be sure.

I will keep plugging along
The first thing you need to accept is that MMOs are hotbeds for sociopaths. It's a medium that enables people to engage in anti-social behaviour with zero consequences. Having said that, if you're doing everything right and still getting ragged on, feel free to tell your detractors to go !@#$ themselves, drop group, and re-queue while simultaneously being polite and well-mannered to everybody else. You're paying a monthly subscription to have fun and not deal with woefully maladjusted mouthbreathers.

Other than that, read guides, gear properly, etc. You can learn all of Protection's basic points in less than five minutes.
01/12/2013 08:28 PMPosted by Nagayoshi
Other than that, read guides, gear properly, etc. You can learn all of Protection's basic points in less than five minutes.


Indeed.

Many thanks.

I finished a raid about an hour ago.
Someone stated that maybe that Tanking was not for me......I put'em on spot.
I held up the Raid and asked if I was doing something wrong, or could do something better, to tell me.
I got back many responses that advised me I was doing "Fine", even for my Armour and Stats being borked.

One thing I seem to have a problem with, is that I have read many sites, but that no two agree on Pally Tank stats, and method(s). Especially since the MoP release.
This has become a real issue apparently.

I am re-overlooking my character now and adjust stats, glyphs and Talents.
Armor will have to come as it does, along with stat reforge.

I will re-read, now, the recommended link above again, and start there, as a base line.

One Issue though:

Been using Omen 3 addon to determine threat
It seems that my threat level remains at 110% to 130% and says "Pull Aggro"
Is this where I should be?
No clear documentation on how to read the bloody addon properly
Hey bud, you can't get better as a tank without practicing. Please stick with it, please don't leave because some derphard DPS coasting along on autopilot while watching Mad Men on Netflix and pressing 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-4 thinks he knows what it is to tank. If you're doing LFR and LFD, you're never going to see any of those people ever again.

Always make sure everything is trying to kill you, and not your group.
Always have all enemies in front of you, and have their backs to your group.

If you're raiding, and most people are telling you you're doing fine, but some are telling you you're bad - that means you know the basics, you know what you should be doing, you just need to put it into practice better.

More time tanking, more experience.

Maybe there was some lost aggro? TidyPlates with ThreatPlates will make any mob not aggro'd on you glaringly obvious. BUT some things as simple as a low-dps weapon will make it nigh-impossible to hold aggro off that FrostDK with a 509 2H'r blasting off with all CD's.

Maybe you go too slow for someone's taste? They can go blow a dolphin. Turn off autorun and see if that fits their fancy.

The biggest part of tanking a raid boss is knowing what they do. WoWHead's comments section for any raid boss will have an explanation of abilities and a strategy for defeating him. It's a tank's responsibility to know what he needs to do - asking an LFR how to do a boss can work out sometimes, but shouldn't be relied upon.

EDIT: And sorry, yes, 110-130 is fine, though i'm assuming that omen's threat meter and blizzard's threat meter show the same numbers. I haven't used it in a while. I believe something isn't pulled off you until the 90% mark.
That was kind of a general romp. Specifics...

Head, Neck, Wrist, weapon, gloves, 2/3 of your dragonling trinket are entirely (Please note: entirely) useless.

Back, belt, leg, and the hit trinket are less useless, but only slightly

6 pieces are actual tank pieces.

Anyone that inspects you is going to call you a bad tank, no matter how you're playing. Just because a piece is plate and you can wear it doesn't mean you should.

There is a vendor in Townlong Steppes, at the first quest area, who sells equipment. Go there, buy a Helm, Necklace, Bracers, Weapon, and Gloves. If you don't have the cash, go quest in Dread, maybe you'll replace a piece with quest gear and won't have to buy it.

This stuff is going to have a vastly inferior ilvl, but will serve you better than an int/spirit or agility piece.

The dragonling trinket needs hit/expertise/mastery

If you're forced out of heroics due to ilvl at that point, i'd say it'll just give you more practice which is never a bad thing!

Once you have this gear, you need to reforge for at least 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise. No matter what guide you read you will be told this - you can't miss all the time or you won't hold the aggro and your group will get pissy. After that it's up to you how to reforge, if you're reading the guides and really understanding them you'll be able to pick your own path.

A tank's armor is his life.
Melindar hits on the main points. So much of your gear does you nothing for your toon. Hit up one of the vendors on the great wall and get some tanking greens. And you need to go 7.5% hit and expertise otherwise you're attacks are going to miss and you won't be able to hold threat against your well geared DPS in the group. If you aren't too familiar with reforging then I totally suggest you get ReforgeLite because it comes with settings to cap your hit/exp before focusing on your other tanking stats. It might seem crazy to give up dodge/parry/mastery for "dps stats" but trust me, your healers will love you.

Without seeing you in an encounter I can't make any play style suggestions for you, but I can tell you to lay off the HotR and use your CS more. Consecration does a lovely job at aoe threat that if your DPS aren't reading reddit they'll do fine at attacking your target. And don't be afraid to drop some healing bombs on yourself with your WoG, that sucker is like a mini lay on hands!

Good luck and don't let the trolls get you down! Find yourself a good guild with people who want to help you learn. I'm always willing to help out a new tank because that means I can dps... and browse reddit :).
Everyone notices what you're doing because by design, tanks are the focal point of the entire group, it can be one of the most stressful and encounter-breaking jobs.

As for reputation, if you're talking about people from raid finder and dungeon finder, nobody is going to remember even the world's worst tank even ten minutes after and it's fairly likely you will never see any of them again. You could zone in wearing nothing but a dress, ninja pull a boss and afk out and nobody would even remember you. But don't do that.

Most raid finder bosses have specific times that the tanks need to switch. When you get into a group, just whisper the other tank to say when they want you to taunt and they should take it as you giving them the main tank role, but make sure you read the boss entries in the dungeon journal. Most of the things that are relevant to taunting and trading are highlighted as important for tanks.


Did you edit your post for that part?
I have taken in all of the suggestions and links, read a lot again to day :p

By forging myself some new equipment (I will be stuck with the sword for a few more runs, then VP to an upgraded purchase), Reforging other stats to something more viable, I have actually come out ahead, and opened up another Raid instance O.O

Canned the Cogs and went with suggested.

You are correct regarding Expertise, Hit and Mastery.
Maxed Hit
Master and expertise are just shy

I am far better off now, then a few hours ago.
And as mentioned practice makes perfect.

I will keep on keep'in on ;)

I did get a comment about a Tank Wearing DPS gear a couple of days ago, but What other choices do we have????
Apparently many of our Tank's needs have been melded into DPS gear.

I will proceed as though I know nothing and start afresh.
I do not know how these stat, glyph, and Talent changes will affect my game play, so I will back down to Normal play until I get a better feel for these adjustments.

Many thanks and watch for me, as I would be curious for additional feed back after running and instance with anyone

You never really know how good you are , until you get an objective opinion ;)
Keep it up. Remember, everyone has to start somewhere. And it looks like you're really trying, so you'll definitely get there.

As for DPS gear, I tank in my DPS gear, hehe. I haven't done LFR as a tank, though, only guild raids and random heroics. Even then, no one has said anything about my gear in heroics, probably because it goes so smoothly.
Keybinds.
01/13/2013 05:18 AMPosted by Rohtaga
Keybinds.


Indeed....

I am using a combination of Keyboard re-assigns and the Razer Naga Mouse, with a very few apparently useful Macro's

Attacks in Key panel Numbers
Protection in Mouse
Heals and hands in the Qwerty area

Oh yea, Without being able to assign Binding, I would be going insane ;)
Don't let getting kicked worry you. People abuse the kick feature over the tiniest things and it sometimes gets really out of hand. If you personally feel you are underperforming, never fear, keep practicing, and keep reading.

Ignore the LFG and LFR people, chances are you will never see those people from other servers again, and most of them are jerks anyway!

Also, putting LFG/LFR on ignore makes sure you never group with them again. (Works in LFG, not positive on LFR.)


Sucks to suck.


Indeed
01/13/2013 02:27 PMPosted by Bearsturnz
Sucks to suck.


So Helpful....

@OP - Looks like you corrected a lot of your gear etc...

Just a quick thing about DPS plate gear (and you should always wear plate no matter what) - if it's a higher ilvl than the piece you are wearing, then it's probably better even if the stats aren't quite right...

Tanking stats at the moment have to do with rng and tanks hate rng - it puts Parry and Dodge below everything but Crit, mainly because you can't stack enough of either to make them reliable - EJ's etc... explain it - but basically you want Hit/ Exp to cap (7.5 & 15%) respectively, Mastery == Haste > Parry > Dodge > Crit...

So if you get a piece that is Haste / Mastery - it is going to be better than a piece with Parry / Dodge

Your active mitigation is built around generating Holy Power for use with Shield of the Righteous and WoG - ShotR to block 30% of incoming damage (when you know the boss is going to smack you a new one) so don't just mindlessly mash it everytime you have 3 holy power, and WoG for the self heal and active absorb shield it generates when you over heal yourself... so the more haste you have, the faster you generate Holy Power, the more ShotR's you can use and mastery increases how much you block with ShotR...

As for Talent choices - I personally like Divine Purpose (yes it's RNG) but extra free heals or ShotR's only make it easier to reduce damage - though it could be argued that HA can be used as a defensive cd to generate HoPo - so I guess that one's personal taste - most tanks will take Light's Hammer for the extra threat and as you SHOULD be holding the boss in one spot, it should get the full benefit from using it...

One more thing - you said you had trouble with taunts - easiest way to know is to have the other tank on Focus - this puts another target frame on your screen - you can see stacks of what ever on the other tank (you will need to configure your frames to show debuffs - in the past i have made sure they show on top - but that depends on where you position your frames) - when the stacks get to X - taunt - if the other tank taunts off you - make sure you do not taunt back until your own stacks have fallen off...

Anyway - sounds like you're on your way and doing better as you go.. GL :)
01/13/2013 08:58 PMPosted by Sweatymoist
You need Recount, DBM (Deadly Boss Mods), and Auctioneer to tank effectively with pugs.


I have DBM and autioneer....
Not recount yet......I work with one addon at a time, until I get used to seeing it, then add another....I am aware of my limitations, and will not overload myself with information that I am not prepared to understand or take in at game time....so One addon at a time until I get used to it and what it is telling me ;)

01/13/2013 08:58 PMPosted by Sweatymoist
You need to drop mining for enchanting. Then once you have your enchanting raised all the way you should do random heroics. When pugs bad mouth you roll need on everything and disenchant it for personal gain. Or if you're feeling shady just need everything from the get go, knowing you'll get kicked. It will be a great offense to them, will give you gold, and make you feel better.


I see where you are going with this, but I must say that it is not my style.
Horde, Alliance, it does not matter. When I play; I assume the roll of the toon.....become the toon.
what is suggested here is something I will not and morally can not do, by this toon.
I have never, and will never roll for armour and items I do not need, even greens.
"Honor, Respect, Discipline, and the Protection of Others by Sacrifice", is an old Paladin adage back from the starting days of D&D (Yes, I am a very old gamer), and one I will uphold even here in WoW.

Off topic a bit, but let me throw this at you:
I have been spending time, on and off, at Gurubashi arena trying to get my Achievement there.
Swung by on my way to Booty Bay and did some Archeology. I looked in and saw a Horde 47 Druid trying to do the Daily thing here. A horde level 90 Warrior swooped down and killed the druid. this took place two hours before game time.
There was no reason for the attack, and at the druids level was too low to allot an honorable kill to the warrior.
The Druid did confirm that he was only here for the daily points and was trying to figure out what the warrior was doing.
Needless to say; I got pissed! I immediately switched into PvP Gear, flew down at the warrior and went ballistic.......the whole time I am attacking/spanking him.....I was yelling things to the equivalent of; "What are you doing you stupid idiot?", "We have enough issues with the Alliance, let alone having Horde betray fellow members", "You need to support your fellow lower level Horde Members", "You get no honor for killing at that level, and it is not like that Druid is here during the match or at match time", etc. Needless to say; yes I killed that Orc Warrior, spit on his body and waited for him to rez....once he did I healed him., and allowed him to decide what he wanted to do a that point.
The point of this being is that this is the persona that I have chosen to vest myself with when I play THIS toon.
I may not be the shining example of Paladins every where, but I can do my best :)

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