Holy crap I'm getting buffed to the moon.

Wyrmrest Accord
01/05/2013 10:54 AMPosted by Raynell
Heard shadow priests are gonna see some love as well, which we desperately need.


No.

No it wasn't.

AT ALL

WHATSOEVER
I don't know about Holy Priests, but Disc Priests are so strong right now for heroic content its absurd. Spirit Shell trivializes almost every heroic fight in HoF and several in the other two raids.
01/05/2013 11:59 AMPosted by Aethun


No.

No it wasn't.

AT ALL

WHATSOEVER


Allow me to repeat myself

In terms of PVE spriests are still far behind other specs for DPS (checking World of Logs and Noxxic), and in terms of PVP disc and holy are underperforming (checking World of Wargraphs and the PVP ladders on the official site).

I am rather tired of people saying that all priests are overpowered in the entire game without actually looking at things.
Meters are never an effective way to measure healing. I only pvp once in a blue moon so I can't comment on that, but when several heroic strats included lines such as "Have your disc priest do this..", they're in a pretty good place.
01/05/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Quintus
Meters are never an effective way to measure healing. I only pvp once in a blue moon so I can't comment on that, but when several heroic strats included lines such as "Have your disc priest do this..", they're in a pretty good place.


I'm not saying disc priests are underpowered in PVE though, so it's a bit of a moot point.

To my understanding, disc in PVP doesn't have the survivability or regen to compete against other healing specs. I don't PVP much, but it's just what I'm seeing (based on recent adjustments to Rapture and Focused Will, priest discussions, and logs).


Allow me to repeat myself

In terms of PVE spriests are still far behind other specs for DPS (checking World of Logs and Noxxic), and in terms of PVP disc and holy are underperforming (checking World of Wargraphs and the PVP ladders on the official site).

I am rather tired of people saying that all priests are overpowered in the entire game without actually looking at things.


I wouldn't argue that priests are wholly overpowered, but Shadow would still be OK in PvE without the incoming buffs, yet the buffs will send shadow way overboard in PvP. I wasn't refuting discipline or holy's need for a buff at all, both of those specs need a buff.

I guess my point is: is it really reasonable for Blizzard to screw up PvP balance more than they already have and disregard the large PvP community because shadow priests are slightly behind the DPS pack? Shadow priest buffs are adding a TON of PvP imbalance for a smaller portion of PvE balance.
It's pretty tough to make all specs good in both PvE and PvP though, not every class can be a Mage after all. Look at Warrior, I love love love PvE Arms but other than Dragon Soul it is generally behind Fury. Fury on the other hand is complete trash for PvP. Disc has been the traditional spec for PvP so I can understand some annoyance and as mentioned I can't speak on PvP so Ill take your word on it.


Allow me to repeat myself

In terms of PVE spriests are still far behind other specs for DPS (checking World of Logs and Noxxic), and in terms of PVP disc and holy are underperforming (checking World of Wargraphs and the PVP ladders on the official site).

I am rather tired of people saying that all priests are overpowered in the entire game without actually looking at things.


I wouldn't argue that priests are wholly overpowered, but Shadow would still be OK in PvE without the incoming buffs, yet the buffs will send shadow way overboard in PvP. I wasn't refuting discipline or holy's need for a buff at all, both of those specs need a buff.

I guess my point is: is it really reasonable for Blizzard to screw up PvP balance more than they already have and disregard the large PvP community because shadow priests are slightly behind the DPS pack? Shadow priest buffs are adding a TON of PvP imbalance for a smaller portion of PvE balance.


We're not even "slightly behind," we're consistently ranking in bottom. If we don't manage to get our procs, good luck doing anything decent.

I wish Blizzard would just completely separate PVP and PVE - plenty of other games have managed it without trouble. It's a little depressing to see your already not-so-great PVE spec get nerfed to help adjust PVP, and vice versa.


I wouldn't argue that priests are wholly overpowered, but Shadow would still be OK in PvE without the incoming buffs, yet the buffs will send shadow way overboard in PvP. I wasn't refuting discipline or holy's need for a buff at all, both of those specs need a buff.

I guess my point is: is it really reasonable for Blizzard to screw up PvP balance more than they already have and disregard the large PvP community because shadow priests are slightly behind the DPS pack? Shadow priest buffs are adding a TON of PvP imbalance for a smaller portion of PvE balance.


We're not even "slightly behind," we're consistently ranking in bottom. If we don't manage to get our procs, good luck doing anything decent.

I wish Blizzard would just completely separate PVP and PVE - plenty of other games have managed it without trouble. It's a little depressing to see your already not-so-great PVE spec get nerfed to help adjust PVP, and vice versa.


That would be amazing. I'd much rather Blizzard work on something like that for a couple months than new daily hubs and scenarios, honestly.
01/05/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Aethun
That would be amazing. I'd much rather Blizzard work on something like that for a couple months than new daily hubs and scenarios, honestly.


I would like to not feel gimped playing a ret paladin.
I'm not sure SPriest is as weak as you think it is in PvE. We recently added one and he does good dps so I wanted to check to see if he was just exceptional or if the spec was doing a little better than it was thought to be doing.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/10H/100/14/60/default/

First link shows 10m Heroic parses for the last two weeks where Shadow is the 4th highest spec overall.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/100/14/60/default/

This link is 25H where they fall to 7th, but still not exactly in a terrible position. Admittingly, you need to read raidbots with a grain of salt but if you're not familiar with the website. Here is a copy paste where they explain spec scores.


What Is This?

At the most basic level, the DPS Bot attempts to determine and display how various World of Warcraft classes and specs compare against each other. It does this by crunching data from World of Logs.

There are a few things to be aware of above all else:

All values are aggregated over the last 14 days from all public logs. So for a specific boss fight, you are usually looking at the median over all kills from the past 14 days.
Data should be interpreted with a large grain of salt for new fights or bosses that have only been killed by a handful of guilds.
Be smart about using this data in discussions of class balance. Don't just look at the overall charts and QQ on forums. The truth is usually more nuanced than what is shown here.

What is Spec Score?

Spec Score is the best measure I've been able to come up with to compare specs across all fights of a given tier. The goal has been to minimize the effect a "gimmick" fight has on the overall rankings and generally normalize fights to have a common ground of comparison.

In a nutshell, each spec is scored on a curve for each fight. For each individual boss, the spec with the top DPS on a fight gets a score of 100 and then all other specs are scored according to that top spec. The average across all fights for a given spec is the Spec Score for the current tier.

As usual, this score is not the end-all, be-all measure of anything. It's merely an interesting collection of data trying to compress a whole lot of data into a single comparable value. Don't ever forget that each spec has its strengths and weaknesses and may be needed for any number of reasons. While raw numbers are absolutely an important facet of raiding, there are often other variables that are far more important.

All of that said, I think Spec Score is a far better indicator of relative spec power than a simple aggregation of DPS values from all fights. Those values are still available but I hope and pray that you understand that they have their own variety of problems and caveats.

A more detailed description and example will be posted on the Raidbots Blog.


Edit: Pains me to see my beloved Arms spec at the very bottom.
Now I just need to actually transfer over my monk!
i was doing fine in pvp, now im going to destroy, lots of new goodies, thanks blizz

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