"Remove flying mounts"middle ground solution?

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So then why'd you bother posting, if your post about this "remove flying craze" was completely irrelevant to conversation since no one asked for it to be removed?


Oh, it's completely relevant, or at least just as relevant as your opinion. :D

The point is that this thread spawned as a result of all these threads, else why would it be here? In the past, I'd have ignored it, but since I used to ignore all the "OMG, MY REALM IS BARREN!" threads, and we got CRZ, I've decided to be a bit more proactive.
I think the fatigue bar is a fairly good idea.

That or maybe they could add some common extreme weather to the game where flying mounts can't stay in the air for very long.
I can't believe people want to remove flying mounts. I enjoy every time I mount up and take off. Totally immersed for me in a fantasy world where dragons and other creatures can be tamed and flown.
With the Undead's orginal idea, if we landed next to water then would we have to water our Flying mount? or could it just "Drink" the water? either we do this to the PvPer's who want to fight the other faction constantly, or Flying stays as it is.
It's what they do, it's part of their job detail.

One might present the perspective that being able to divebomb in on a named quest mob from 70 yards in the air devalues the ability of a rogue or druid being able to stealth past those mobs.


I'm a Warlock, I have big bat wings coming out of my back.

I use that wonderful little thing called imagination to pretend that she can fly around with said wings, because walking around WHEN YOU HAVE GIANT FRIKKIN' WINGS is kind of silly.

So are you going to hinder my ability to fly(using the red cloud disc because it's the smallest mount), & ruin my immersion? How is that fair?
01/18/2013 08:03 AMPosted by Bruaidin
Does this solution make everyone happy? I doubt it, but it seems like a good place to start anyways...feedback?


You knew when you posted this that it wasn't anything like middle ground, because there IS no middle ground. Flying stays or flying goes - period.


The OP idea is horrible. Flying should stay but if blizz really wanted to make it not as attractive they could make flying mounts be 280% speed and ground mounts be 310% speed. I think most would still use flying mounts.

Since blizz isn't doing this I think it means blizz is fine with the way things are.


Immersion is entirely subjective.

I don't find running past a bunch of mobs on my ground mount particularly immersive, yet apparently you do.


You don't find it the slightest bit weird that we can fly so high up in the atmosphere where the air would be too thin to breathe - yet there is no "underwater breathing" effect up there.

You don't find it the slightest bit weird that we can fly so high up in the atmosphere where the air is so cold that our character would develop hypothermia within seconds?

You don't find it the slightest bit weird that there are no air currents anywhere above the trees?

You don't find it the slightest bit weird that after 6 years of flying, no one - not even the Alliance and Horde, has thought about equipping their troops with nets or some magic spell to yank someone from their flying mount when clipping by at a lower altitude?

Flying mounts completely remove the player from all threats. 10 seconds on the spacebar and NOTHING can hurt you, ever - not even the vertical edge of the map (invisible wall).

That affects immersion.
All the arguments about "immersion" or WPvP... pointless. There are two pertient facts that will determine Blizzard's actions:

1. There is too much content already designed in that requires flying. They're not going to rewrite all that content just to eliminate (or modify) flying. The current method of limiting it to certain areas and/or by level is their best "compromise" on that.

2. Too many people like it and want to keep it. Blizz would be cutting their own throats if they got rid of it -- or cause major changes that would alientate huge numbers of players. Subs would disappear like snowflakes in a blast furnace. Talk about a "WoW Killer"! Blizz isn't about to play Russion Roulette with a fully loaded gun.

All other arguments/points of view are exercises in futility compared to the above. Unless/until both of those change, flying is in to stay and the Nay-Bobs are just yapping to be yapping.

Get over it.


So then why'd you bother posting, if your post about this "remove flying craze" was completely irrelevant to conversation since no one asked for it to be removed?


Oh, it's completely relevant, or at least just as relevant as your opinion. :D

The point is that this thread spawned as a result of all these threads, else why would it be here? In the past, I'd have ignored it, but since I used to ignore all the "OMG, MY REALM IS BARREN!" threads, and we got CRZ, I've decided to be a bit more proactive.


grin...burnt hand teaches best theory! I like it! Ignored the symptoms (threads) and got the plague (CRZ)...learned to not ignore symptoms anymore!

/em shakes hand emphatically in appreciation


So then why'd you bother posting, if your post about this "remove flying craze" was completely irrelevant to conversation since no one asked for it to be removed?


Oh, it's completely relevant, or at least just as relevant as your opinion. :D

The point is that this thread spawned as a result of all these threads, else why would it be here? In the past, I'd have ignored it, but since I used to ignore all the "OMG, MY REALM IS BARREN!" threads, and we got CRZ, I've decided to be a bit more proactive.


If you want to be proactive, discuss the topics in the thread and explain why you believe mounts should remain unrestricted.
I like how people keep bringing up immersion as if it were the real reason they want people grounded. What you really want is forced world pvp on pvp servers. Ask Blizzard to ground everyone on pvp servers, and you and the few hundred that couldn't afford server transfers to rp/pve servers would be able to kill each other to your hearts content.
01/18/2013 10:44 AMPosted by Alysson


Says who?


Says me.

Experienced it in other games (Rift, TOR, etc) and seen the value of not letting people just mount up and bypass content. It's too bad that both of those games had their other issues (TOR specifically) - because I had a good time there.

Flying is something that is not needed and when another game is played without it - one can really experience how much of the game immersion is removed with being able to fly over everything with no danger at all.

Convenience always comes with a price and many pro-flight guys seem to not realize what that price really is.


Uh.. LOL. so, you playing these other games gives you the right to tell someone that flying is not needed for them? just cause you had fun in other games? lol. I have loremaster along with the pandaville loremaster. I can guarantee you I didn't miss quest content by flying lol.

I see no price to be paid for having this convenience... other than the licenses and the mount costs/time it took to get them.
You might. If you think it's a bad price, then obviously, just don't use it.

A cooldown would be a weird and inconsistent rule?


On mounts, yeah, it would. The OP actually comes closest to making the idea work by tying it to fatigue, so that the cooldown is only invoked if the mount would plausibly be tired after a long flight (and of course time spent not flying would restore the fatigue bar). But since this doesn't actually accomplish anything, there seems little point to implementing it.

I would like to see flying mounts restricted in cities (after all, they're likely to rain enormous droppings on the streets and people below), using the Dalaran model of specified takeoff/landing locations. And I'd like to see immersive flight hazards used both to keep people from going AFK (random hazards in all locations, except perhaps near friendly cities) and to discourage — not prevent — flight in areas where Blizzard would prefer to have us on the ground (flak, enemy patrols, more aggressive and numerous flying mobs, etc.) I'm opposed to immersion-breaking designs that flat out prevent us from pushing the mount button when we wish, or that dismount us for no readily apparent reason over a given piece of territory.
It would be more immersive to plot your course around the mobs in a 2D plane, and CC mobs you didn't want to fight.

Rogue and druid stealth involves an element of risk that flying does not have.


CCing a mob only holds them off for a while before making them chase you again.

& flying still has risks, please don't act like it doesn't.



Aside from accidentally flying too close to an enemy faction outpost - care to name some of those other risks?
You don't find it the slightest bit weird that we can fly so high up in the atmosphere where the air would be too thin to breathe - yet there is no "underwater breathing" effect up there.

You don't find it the slightest bit weird that there are no air currents anywhere above the trees?

You don't find it the slightest bit weird that after 6 years of flying, no one - not even the Alliance and Horde, has thought about equipping their troops with nets or some magic spell to yank someone from their flying mount when clipping by at a lower altitude?

Flying mounts completely remove the player from all threats. 10 seconds on the spacebar and NOTHING can hurt you, ever - not even the vertical edge of the map (invisible wall).

Oh, get real. There are tons of examples where real world physics, biology, etc. don't apply in the game. It's fantasy. Employ "willing suspension of disbelief".

In any of these games (from the original D&D to whatever is available today) there is a inverse proportion between playability and realism. Blizz elected to go heavily on the playability side, so realism suffers. If you can't deal with that maybe this game isn't for you. If the game is for you, then please stop using such specious arguments to make a "point" that has nothing to do with the basis of the subject, which is that flying isn't going away, nor is it about to be altered by any significant amount any time soon. See my above post for details.
01/18/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Alysson
You don't find it the slightest bit weird that we can fly so high up in the atmosphere where the air would be too thin to breathe - yet there is no "underwater breathing" effect up there.


I don't fly that high up, so it doesn't break my immersion.

01/18/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Alysson
You don't find it the slightest bit weird that there are no air currents anywhere above the trees?


I ride a dragon.

More than that, I ride an Azure Drake, the elite of Malygos' experiments.

It being able to handle flying doesn't break my immersion.

01/18/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Alysson
You don't find it the slightest bit weird that after 6 years of flying, no one - not even the Alliance and Horde, has thought about equipping their troops with nets or some magic spell to yank someone from their flying mount when clipping by at a lower altitude?


You haven't done any Shieldwall or Dominance dailies, have you?

The Alliance field gryphon riders to and the Horde have massive flak cannons.

So no, it doesn't break my immersion.

01/18/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Alysson
Flying mounts completely remove the player from all threats. 10 seconds on the spacebar and NOTHING can hurt you, ever - not even the vertical edge of the map (invisible wall).


So what? Riding on my ground mount removes those threats, too.


It does if your class or character wants to avoid fighting wherever possible.

Would a rogue or druid stealthing past all mobs break immersion too, or is it part of what they do?


It's what they do, it's part of their job detail.

One might present the perspective that being able to divebomb in on a named quest mob from 70 yards in the air devalues the ability of a rogue or druid being able to stealth past those mobs.


Having to deal with mobs that have random arbitrary agro ranges and are too stupid to come over and help while watching me kill their friends doesn't make the game more engaging, it's in fact a nuisance and frankly flying over their cap once is enough for me I don't need to spend 10 minutes slaughtering things I don't care about.
01/18/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Lhivera
On mounts, yeah, it would.


I guess will agree to disagree on this point. I agree with you on the rest.

Being able to fly so high that the ground is almost faded into fog is quite immersion breaking when you think about how thin and cold the air at that altitude would be. There are also no winds EVER to blow you around. Apparently, Azeroth doesn't have a jetstream.

There are also no hostile birds (anymore), dragons, or lightning storms anywhere to be found up there in the cold, thin air with no jetstream.

There is no danger and that is what breaks immersion.


As I've said upthread and elsewhere, I'm all for the addition of flight hazards. They would indeed improve the immersive quality of the world. But you don't improve that quality by committing additional crimes against immersion by arbitrarily grounding mounts.


I don't see how putting a cooldown on flying mounts or an energy limit of somekind is "arbitrarily grounding mounts". They are still useable - just not 100% of the time.

I see it no different than some of the other gates in the game to keep a sense of challenge in that type of game play.
01/18/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Alysson
Aside from accidentally flying too close to an enemy faction outpost - care to name some of those other risks?


Fatigue from flying over water.

Getting caught in trees, other places.

Flying into a no fly zone or near one enough that you might fall to your death.

Flying enemies, not just guards.

The fact that people on the ground or on buildings can indeed shoot at you if you're flagged.

Mobs from the ground can also shoot at you, sometimes to your death.

Bonus: CRZ & its habit of randomly dismounting people to their death, or dropping their passengers into a bad place that gets them 1-shot.

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