Ret RATED PVP: Analisys and Ideas to FIX IT

01/14/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Charms
Our sustained is fine, our burst is through the roof

If our sustained is fine then what do you consider spriests and warriors? If our burst is through the roof then what do you consider fdruids, mages, and warriors?

Our burst is alright, just on a very long cooldown. Our sustained however is far from fine, with us being probably one of the lowest sustained dps in arenas. Especially with our lack of a true gap closer. Although Emancipate and t1 does help, its still not feral charge, charge, or death grip.
I'd just like to see our WoG increased and perhaps TV hit a little harder.. After all, both wog and TV heal/hit the same as our HP building abilities.. They should heal/hit bigger due to them costing Holy Power.
I'm happy to leave FoL where it is because honestly, who hard casts it anyway? Only use it with selfless healer stacks..

I no comparing a dk to a ret is like comparing a race car to a ute.. But I think it's funny that my dreadful none upgraded dk with a none pvp weapon hits easily harder than my full malevolent ret pally.... Sure my survivability on my rets a lot better but it helps when your sitting on 68% resil..

I gave up trying to be competitive on my ret when 5.1 hit, now I play ret/dk/disc with some mates under geared alts for $hits and giggles..
One of the worst arena comps in mop hah..
This is a huge QQ thread. I have a 90 ret in blues that's better in Arena than my WW monk. We are like super versatile (Ret). Double Hand of Sac, Double Freedom, Double HoP!

I was just thinking last night how Ret Paladins have soooo much utility if played right.

In the end, this thread can be summarized with a big fat:


I would like to see your Ret. i am sure you are a 1200 player. you have no idea how bad it is at high ratings
you should post this where the Devs might read it. you know they dont read the class forums right?
and as a 2200 ret in 3's i can say your right about us needing a rework.
^ Seriously that.

If you have clear, concisely constructed posts about problems with rated play, don't put them on the class forums. Don't put them on the pvp forums. Put them on the PTR forums or maybe the DD forums. (The DD forums are seriously god awful but the devs do read them)
Nice, going to do it =D Tnx guys. Anything to add before I post there?
You have good points, I tried to cover some of those things by changing our talent tree (so the talents benefits each spec differently) but no one really payed attention (if you could give it a look, I appreciate xD).

I just think that one of our biggest problems is the lack of counter-cc. A lot of class has skills that remove them or even make them immune to it, we? A 5min spell. If Hand of Freedom starts to break stun again and/or we have an ability to break/make us immune to fears for a certain amount of time (ret only), I think we gonna do so much better. Being able to use some skills while CC (like Hands and Divine Protection) and removing DS from the GDC (so silence doesnt affect it anymore) will also be awesome.

Thats what GC isnt looking. On paper, we have one of the best burst capabilities in the game (although our sustain damage keeps on from doing 100k+ TVs, for example), but it really doesnt matter if we gonna lost at least 50% of its uptime on a single fear; forcing us to use them separately, make them small boosts that would still make players cc us to death.
Let us no where ya post it
Here it is: vote sticky, bump, tweet it, etc. Let me know if there's anything to add too.

HoF remove CCs whould be OP, there's some reason to make the balance as it is. But I think Divine Protection Remove/Prevent Silence whould be OK.

We already have bubble to take CCs off, and there's ideas for Devotion Aura on 2 min and a 3 min Divine Shield - so since it's about the idea, they'll get it =)
01/14/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Charms
Why is it that everyone wants class homogeneity?

Because class homogeneity is already here. Almost every class has bubble, gap closers, snares, cc out the wah zoo, can heal themselves, dis arm, ect...
I fully agree with everything you've said. I feel the main problem is survivability. BoP and HoF are great and all, but really require voice-chat to fully maximize (I see these buffs get wasted all the time in random BGs - person iceblocks or disperses anyway).

When you look at rogues they have plenty of abilities to evade damage.

Warriors have better CC and mobility and can put more pressure on a target.

DKs are much like warriors with more flavor to their cooldowns. Silence, anti-magic shell, death grip, etc all are phenomenal abilities.

Can't speak much for enhancement.

You can't balance a paladin around BoP. Most of the time you never BoP yourself and you bubble's effective benefit to the Ret is next to 0. I only say this because utility classes don't exist in this game.

Sacrifice can be used to break or prevent CC on another target, but sadly, being as weak as we are defensively we're the focus and not our teammate(s). Our silence susceptability is very high. We struggle generating holy power, doing damage, or self healing.

HoF is great when combined with emancipate, but is only truly great when used on other targets (for maximum benefit) - Once again there are no support classes in WoW (supposedly).

Devo aura is a great cooldown as well....but when do we really hard cast does happen but fairly rarely. Once again, we seem to be a support class.

What I would like to see is out support gutted. Leave it as self only or for Holy only. Warriors don't support other people directly - short of intervene they "do their own thing." Warriors along with every other melee class and various other classes are good by themselves. Their abilities can be used as INDIRECT SUPPORT. Meanwhile, Ret is required to maximize their support to play to the best of their ability.

The problems with paladins are archaic. Hammer of Justice was good, in vanilla. Now everyone and their mother has a short-term stun or CC. Blinding light is over-rated too. It's eclipsed by Psychic Scream, it's worse than intimidating shout, and various other AoE CCs.

The so called "support" for Ret is what's holding us back. I want real tool-kit for dealing damage and providing CC. I want to be better, I don't want to make my team better. When it all comes down to it, you get no glory for that.
I'd like to see Consecrate come back for Ret... minor gripe but would be cool to have it back.

I'd like to see our mastery not double dip in resilience. Blizzard has said or sustained needs help...this would be a good way to help that.

I'd like to see self-less healer revamped, change the name, so that it provides us with the same or nearly the same benefit as it does a friendly target.

I'd like to see Bubble changed to -25% damage, OR + 100% healing while active. Lately I find myself using bubble to clear dots or stuns to score a killing blow - not to actually keep me alive - I normally just cancel it after activating.

BoP allowing melee to attack would be cool too..

As far as I'm concerned you need to either make Ret themselves better and remove utility, or leave them the way they are and make the utility easier and better.
No fixes yet. I think we'll be forsaken again, everyone keeps pointing, facts still there, ideas and analysis still valid and no changes. It's hard to keep the hopes up.
They dont care about ret at all. We get nerfs that are ment for other classes and dont get fixed for months, we still are not fixed. This whole season has sucked after 5.1 came out. I guess it looks like this whole expansion will be this way.
The healing we are getting is not even close to the fix we need.

I am so sick of this game!!!!
Keeping this topic as the main active about it. Post there if any idea comes up. We have to speak up for is all we can do about it.
Blizzard never looks in class forums (they have said so in a quote), so repost this in damage dealing forums.
NO MORE CC PLEASE..... I'd way prefer to see some of the cc, stun, silence, fear removed from other classes than added to classes that don't have it...

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