Ret RATED PVP: Analisys and Ideas to FIX IT

I agree with all this... I've been playing ret all through mists and am almost in full malevolent at this point... I've been realizing all the same things more and more and am to the point of thinking "How??! does blizz not see this?" Its not just one area, or one thing that needs to be fixed... we lack in everything... I understand that pallys are a support class, but why even have a damage spec seperate from holy if you're going to try to sell a class as being "support".. there is nothing a ret can do atm that there simply just is not a better class for doing so.. One thing I would add, is that pallys are the only melee class with no ability to break CC's/fear/stun/charm, etc... not only do other classes have this, but they generally have more than one and on top of that, last for a duration not just "break" a CC.... 1 good fear to another side of the arena and my teammate is dead.. I have started leveling alts at this point and playing other classes, paladins have always been my favorite class to play, and I don't think that anyone should basically beforced to reroll/play something other than their favorite roll becuz the one they prefer simply just isn't viable or desireable
01/14/2013 09:33 AMPosted by Kcos
Anyone else confused by the 80% DPS and 10% healer? What is the other 10% supposed to be?

Non existant
Loh is no longer usable in Rbgs, HoF is only for 5 seconds and if you bop your healer there's either a lock or mage still on them. We hit like a truck? We hit the same as all the other classs burst then after we're useless.
I saw in tradechat "LF Bad for RBG."

I assumed he meant Ret.
Stun removing freedoms! Bring em back!
I have an idea Make it so we have are own excullusive buffs again then they will haft to take us. Greater might the kind that makes your atack power go up not the mastery crap.
We are too easily controlled, so bringing back "Freedom removes Stuns from the Paladin" would be an excellent way to add some self-sustained utility to Retribution. The only problem I see is that Freedom offers a ton of utility to those around us and this utility would diminish if we're stuck holding onto our Freedoms in anticipation of stuns.

Sustained Damage - Something else that has been mentioned in this thread is that Retribution needs love with it's sustained damage. We have great burst damage, but with such a short window and a LONG cooldown period. A solution that I have posted in a similar thread is a buff to our Seals damage(think Vanilla and BC Seals) and a RealPPM system implemented. This could allow us to put out respectable pressure when we're finally able to catch up to our target. The RealPPM system will calculate the amount of Seal attacks that are allowed to occur within an allotted time frame. Making it so Seal attacks aren't essentially wasted, but are rather distributed evenly with the amount of up-time we have.

Utility - Having off-heals is decent in small teams such as 2s/3s/5s, but not nearly as effective of exclusive utility. We need utility that makes us effective for all types of Rated PvP, where healers are abundant and more than capable of doing their jobs. We need something that isn't offered by Holy and something powerful enough to make us wanted.

Survivability - Retribution is easily tunneled in Rated PvP because our only deterrent is on a 5 minute cooldown, making us again a tunnel target in 8 seconds(or until removed, since the over abundance in Spriests/Warriors makes this occur so much more often). We need some sort of active survivability or mitigation ability that makes people think twice, or even think at all about who to tunnel. We're also one of the only classes where nearly every single one of our defenses/utilities can be dispelled. We're the guardians of Light and keepers of peace, where are our abilities to call upon the light or pacify our enemies.

We need something done so Rated PvP leaders can make a conscious choice between "Should I take the Arms Warrior for his mobility/damage or a Retribution Paladin for his damage/utility. I was able to conjure up what I believe to be a decent fix to our sustained damage, but nothing for survivability or utility. Hopefully Blizzard can and will!
I think you hit the nail on the head in your first paragraph, OP. Ret paladins have nothing unique or particularly valuable that can't be provided by a holy paladin. That doesn't mean, however, that we should go through the list of everything other classes have and saying we need what they have to be viable.

Ret lacks a certain staying power. I don't mean that in terms of burst damage, as many people will argue that ret has decent burst available when needed. What I mean is that they have no signature game-changer. One might have made the argument that Divine Shield was that game changer a long time ago when it was undispellable and lasted 12 seconds, but that's not the case anymore. Like you pointed out, there is a reason to take a deathknight, a rogue, a warrior, a shadow priest etc. They have game changing abilities that, if used correctly, will decide a fight.

Knowing that, we can then ask ourselves what it is ret has, or should have, that can decide a fight for their team. This can be offensive, defensive or both. Your imagination is the limit.
01/14/2013 07:59 AMPosted by Chengzu
As far as i see it, they have huge flavour/utility - Bubble, HoP on others, HoF on others or self, Emancipate on self, LoH in bgs only, the list goes on and on... You even have a stun on 30 sec cd if talented, a blind as well, and a truck load of burst if timed correctly.

They bring nothing that a holy paladin doesn't bring. Besides maybe some burst.
ret pallies are so easy to play
Give Ret a "Readiness" type ability that resets all of our cooldowns every 5 minutes.

Allow BoF to remove active stuns on the paladin only but not targets.

Boost WoG healing through Sword of Light. Boost damage through SoL slightly.

Lower wings to a 2min CD with the appropriate power reduction if needed.

That would be a good start there.
01/26/2013 03:19 AMPosted by Covahredro
Give Ret a "Readiness" type ability that resets all of our cooldowns every 5 minutes.

That's what Clemency is basically.

Doesn't reset any DPS abilities. Doesn't reset bubble.

Compare to cold snap for mages. Resets many of their big abilities, heals them for 30%. Ice block is included in that...

Readiness resets ALL hunter Cds with a CD of less than 5 minutes.

Clemency really isn't the same, although it helps. Most of the time it's only relevant for BoF though.
Id like something that goes with our spec.

I mean we are RET pallies! The name makes it sound like there should be repercussions for attacking us. As it is we are the go to kill target in arena. We should get some ability that reflects a % of the dmg dealt to us, or maybe a vengeance type ability that increases our holy dmg on a target that has dealt x% dmg to us. Such an ability could be passive with a low % or a cd with a high % and low duration.

I think something like that would fit with the spec. It would give a "vengeance is mine!!!!" feel that would make sense for a ret pally, imo. Plus people would to think twice about training us in pvp.

Another idea, is just remove bubble completely and replace it with a series of absorb bubbles like say a demo loc, some cc outs, or anything really. I feel bubble is the reason we dont get any real mitigation abilities or "outs." It is an out of date ability with minimal usefulness, imo. Does nothing for ret but delay death or nothing at all since wars/spriests are everywhere.

Seems to me devs dont give ret !@#$ b/c they figure "bubble covers it." Well in reality bubble does almost jack: it gets broken by the two most common specs in pvp, pretty much every dmg cd is on a shorter cd so even if we bubble thru one set the next one will get us (also many dmg cds like stampede last longer than bubble does!!), cant use to break cc b/c then we have nothing to stop dmg cds (plus all cc's are on much, much shorter cds and most classes have two), and rets lack of heals means all the healing we did in bubble is gone from 1 or 2 atks.
What ret needs (apart from a numbers adjustment) is a fear break.
Having a stun/fear break is to powerful, especially tied with freedom where with clemency we'd have 2 plus bubble plus trinket. OP.

Yes ret needs something specific, adding a fear break/immunity to divine protection could work..

Tho to give us a 'niche' and make us more viable in rbgs ect.
I'd love to see an ability like (or added to) devotion aura which for RET ONLY is an AOE fear break and x amount of seconds fear (+silence, if added onto devotiin aura) immunity for all teammates within aoe range.
Would see ret bring something unique and useful to the competitive scene of rbgs or arena.

I've hear of some other ideas in other threads like
- aoe hammer of justice
- baseline Burden of guilt
And a few others, at first I laughed about it but the more I've thought about it, why not?
We need something n unique and surprisingly other classes have just as powerful abilities..

An aoe fear break/immunity would certainly be unique to ret and I don't think it's that crazy when you look at mass dispell, mass spell reflect ect.

After all, we pallies are ment to be able to fight against undead, warlocks, shadow priests, lichbourne dks.. We can fear their pets, dks in lichbourne and at some point we could fear demo locks but have 0 protection against them ourselves.

Inq duration increased to 45 seconds be good tho I'd much prefer a buff to both WoG and TV.
This dk hits way harder than my full malevolent (half ungraded) ret.

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