The 5.2 blog is tricking most people

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Item level is only part of the picture. We were more generous with PvP Power and Resilience on the Honor gear.

Great, just what we need, more bursty 40 second arenas.
01/23/2013 05:54 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The item level gap between Tyrannical items and Elite Tyrannical items is relatively small.

If the item level gap was only 4 lvls it would be huge. 4 item lvl higher stats on every piece of gear. Take 2 equally skilled players. Put them against each other. One that has higher ilvl wins.



I read the patch notes, and realised.

I didn't care.

Also I realised.

Nothings changed.
Equalize PvP gear in all instances PvP settings, allow gear to remain at full power outside of these instances.

You get arenas, rated and random BGs where people's successes are defined by their skill and their choices in stats, and you get people who want to go ganking people in the open world who can still benefit from the extreme discrepancy in item levels from entry level characters to fully geared characters. There is no reason why anyone who wants to play in a competitive PvP environment wouldn't want normalised gear - it means the game is not, in fact, competitive.
The topic of this thread is about the new higher iLevel tier of Elite gear and how Blizzard spun it in the blog to make all the people that want a more even playing field think they were actually getting it. They aren't. About 2 months in, this next season is going to be much worse for them than the current season. How Blizzard can think this is going to be better is totally beyond me.

Blizzard admits that the PvP community has repeatedly told them that they are happier with cosmetic and other similar rewards than they are with just higher iLevel gear. Yet they are removing that and giving higher iLevel gear again.

Every RBG I have been in, players are talking about their hopes to make 2200 so that they can get the Elite gear because it looks good. When you make that gear no longer just a status symbol and instead make it a necessity to be able to compete, you remove all the fun and enjoyment from trying to reach that reward, and it becomes simply just another grind.

I have had every possible thing I could buy with honor for months now, yet I continue to do normal BGs every single day I play. Why? Because I enjoy them. Why did I put up with the terrible gear grind? Because I knew I would eventually finish it and then be able to truly enjoy them with the gear I was rewarded with. The gear is not the reward. The rewards are reaching the end of the grind, and the sense of accomplishment that players feel when they achieve something. This is not PvE, and is nothing close to PvE. Every time you try to change PvP based on what you know about PvE, you are going to fail. The reward's we want are things like being able to pick the BG you want to play instead of being forced into the current Call-To-Arms even though you hate it; Having good gear so we can compete, not so we can just stomp on everybody else who doesn't have that gear; Nice titles, mounts, fun items, cool looking armor and weapons to transmog to, and other similar things.

Now there are some extremists who want to take gear completely away from PvP. This is of course the stupidest idea of all. But that doesn't mean that you need to keep giving those with better gear even better gear and on and on forever.

What would really solve the gear problem is simply making a new BG queing system where it tries to match the resil and pvp power totals and number of healers on both sides. I do not enjoy being put in a group where 8/10 of the players have less than 300k health and didn't care enough about PvP to even bother getting a contender's PvP set, or even iLevel 437 Dread Wastes quest greens. I also get no enjoyment at all from going into a BG where our team completely crushes the other. The most enjoyment comes from the very close matches where you are able to get some satisfaction from how well you played, even if you lose them. If you had a proper system, you could take a few of these poorly geared players and put them in with better geared players and then put them against an enemy team with a similar makeup. I wouldn't mind seeing 229k health people if I knew that the enemy team was also going to be stuck with them.

Conclusion: The ideas you have for catchup and rating inflation are great. The idea for a new tier of higher iLevel gear is the worst thing you could possibly do to PvP. Just give cosmetic rewards for achieving certain ratings. With the awesome new rating inflation system, you could make some different fun-type rewards for various ratings and everybody would have goals to reach to get those rewards and feel a sense of accomplishment.

Do you seriously think the kind of people who pvp are interested in raiding? Give me a break... I'd rather work my job a couple extra hours every night, for free, than to go home and raid.

Unfortunately, if someone wanted to be a competitive PvPer, yes, they had to, even if they didn't want to.

Recent Examples:
unheeded warning (prenerf)
Fangs of the Father
01/24/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Egopally
You should be able to beat on the people gearing up

Reason I'm uninterested in wow pvp. You shouldn't beat up players gearing up you should be bashing other players your skill and item level while trying to get better yourself.
That's what PvE and earning cosmetics are supposed to be for.

That's taking the ideals of PvE progression and then applying them to PvP, that's like trying to force a square block into a hole meant for a circle.

I agree with that you're saying completely. Leveling a character, progressing through the world, these are RP ideas. Not PvP ideas.

PvP should be easy to step in to like other games. I think it should be an even playing ground where gear is cosmetic and reflects rank and history, but skill is the driving factor of how an outcome is determined. I couldn't imagine Call of Duty being any fun if I had to punch players for a hundred hours before I leveled up to use a pistol. Then had to spend 2,000 hours before I could get body armor. Meanwhile veteran players would be crushing me in tanks laughing all the way.
You obviously know these items so you really need it explained?

Those add procs that cast mindflay was ridiculous. So was overload procs from dragonwrath. And so was those trinkets in cata like vial. The end of cata was atrocious because of those pve items.

I wouldn't say people "gladly" sit in raids to get these items. There comes a point where it's frustrating. Then it becomes obsolete next patch.

Really off-topic here when everyone is talking about equal gear and you still want overpowered pve items in pvp?

All you do is throw out hype-words without any REAL evidence to back it up. Legendaries have existed since the dawn of WOW, as well as Trinkets and weapons that procced.

If you'd bother to read what i said instead of picking part one sentence you didn't like.. the original mention was for PVP items that did the same. The last part about raiding was just strengthening the point of how people like to get those types of items. Example - Items that procced a defender that casts a short AoE interrupt or stun.. hell.. even just sparkly spell effects are entertaining and can cut the boredom of doing the same ol thing.. THEY'RE FUN!! Stop taking it so serious!

And judging by all the hate you have for them, you REALLY sound like someone who always wanted one, but never GOT it. They're fun toys and trinkets and weapons.. THAT'S IT!! A GOOD PVPer will be able to overcome things like that with good timing, proper interrupts and cooldowns.. and doesn't worry about some "flavor of the month" item as much.

01/24/2013 11:00 PMPosted by Positron
I wouldn't say people "gladly" sit in raids to get these items. There comes a point where it's frustrating. Then it becomes obsolete next patch.

Again with the hate. And i would.. i raid with 4 different guilds, as well as run a laid back one that's just casual raiding.. and in ALL of them.. people are ALWAYS salivating over items like these. If for nothing else.. the entertainment factor of what they DO.

I think you said it right though.. YOU wouldn't say that. Your experiences aren't EVERYONE. I didn't say EVERYBODY.. i said I KNOW .. yes I KNOW a LOT of people who DO.

01/24/2013 11:00 PMPosted by Positron
Really off-topic here when everyone is talking about equal gear and you still want overpowered pve items in pvp?

before you tell someone a post is off topic, i'd suggest actually READING what you're so busy criticizing.


People always say "it's broken" and never WHY

DBW in Wrath was a FUN trinket that people would GLADLY sit in hour long raids and go week after week for the CHANCE to get.. Nibelung the same.. so i don't see how people say "it isn't about gear"

As far as PVP,, no one said anything about those weapons in PVP.. but LIKE weapons FOR PVP.. how is that a "bad" thing? It adds spice and fun into the game, always has. And if it's SUCH a big deal that other people are using them.. GO GET ONE.. really? it isn't that hard.

This post SCREAMS of sarcasm and satire... but then I read the first statement and now I'm not so sure. On the off chance you are actually serious, do you listen to yourself?

DO explain the "sarcasm and satire" about people wanting MORE out of the game. Pretty sure if you look around forums, the community has been SCREAMING for it for a WHILE now. What MADE Wrath what it was was two VERY simple things; Fun Gear and the first time in WOW history you didn't have to be the proverbial basement hero to GET said gear. EVERYONE had SOME chance to get fun gear.

And YES!! It's ALL ABOUT GEAR!! Again, please don't respond if you're going to TLDR a post.. I was asking for those kinds of items in PVP as well as PVE.

And the post itself was technically about different TYPES of Endgame PVP gear. Instead of having ONE set of Top-level tier.. make 3 or 4 with different looks and procs. Then you don't know what the person coming at you is wielding or about to do. Isn't that what draws people to PVP instead of PVE in the first place is the lack of predictability????

No, sir.. i'd suggest you listen to yourself, but also try listening to the person you're talking to before you assume so much about something you painfully and obviously didn't read in the first place.
01/25/2013 11:45 AMPosted by Taruung
You should be able to beat on the people gearing up

Reason I'm uninterested in wow pvp. You shouldn't beat up players gearing up you should be bashing other players your skill and item level while trying to get better yourself.

A couple of problems with that. It's often difficult to find other players with your item level and close to your skill. Another problem in Battlegrounds is that there are objectives to complete, and if a poorly geared or skilled player is standing in the way of completing them, well, they have to go. I am fairly well geared and of at least decent skill, so the solution that I prefer is finding an objective that needs completed that is being defended by 2 players instead of just one. It adds quite a bit of excitement and at least it gives them a little better chance.

But, yeah, this is probably an indicator that the gear/skill disparity may be a bit extreme. Sad thing is, this new tier of Elite gear is only going to make it worse once people start getting it and others can't even get a single piece of it per week like they currently can with the standard conquest gear. So not only will higher rated players be getting the gear faster, but then they will be getting better gear faster than others are getting a lower level of gear. Absolutely terrible idea. Only going to make it worse than it is now. This is pretty much going back to TBC/Wrath days where only people with rating could get the good gear, except now after a few months of being farmed the lower rated players will eventually be able to start buying it.

What they really should have done is get rid of the T2 weapon and finally be completely done with restricted gear. Now instead they are adding an entire T2 tier.
Love the 5.2 changes for the most part except the elite armor being higher ilvl. 27000+17000 conquest is way too much. I've only earned 35k this season and have been capping out "almost" every week at ~2500/week from arenas. Would prefer if they just made the elite weapon accessible at 27k and kept the elite armor the same ilvl but recolored as a vanity reward at 2200.
This just in from datamined items:

Dreadful gear: 458 ilvl
Malevolent gear: 476 ilvl
Tyranical gear: 493 ilvl
Elite tyranical gear: 515 ilvl

Only 22 iLevels difference from Normal Conquest to Elite Conquest, only 39 iLevels between Honor gear and Elite Conquest. I'm sure this is going to be exactly what everybody wanted.

And to make it even better:

Malevolent > LFR gear for PVP.
Tyrannical > normal mode raid gear for PvP.
Elite Tyrannical > Heroic mode raid gear for PvP.

Well doesn't that mean that Heroic mode raid gear > Malevolent and Tyrannical in PvP? I seriously hope that is not the case. If it is, you can count me out. You know what's worse than a poorly geared, poorly skilled player on your team in a BG? Some dragonslaying idiot with top raid gear fighting on the road bragging about his damage numbers and claiming he isn't the reason why the team is losing.

I quit WoW 2 years ago and came back after a year and a half mainly because of the changes to PvP and PvP gear being best for PvP. Now you are essentially putting a rating gate on the best PvP gear similar to TBC/Wrath and also making raiding gear better than the standard gear for PvP? I for one will not be playing much longer if that is the case. What happened to the Devs that did such good work on PvP for the MoP expansion? Are they off doing the next expansion and we're stuck with minimum wage paid interns now or what?

Some day you may realize that PvP'ers are your bread and butter. Why? Because while all the elite hardcore raiders quit everytime there is a lack of new content, PvP'ers would stay with you as long as you treat them fairly and don't screw things up like you're trying to do now.
This just in from datamined items:

Dreadful gear: 458 ilvl
Malevolent gear: 476 ilvl
Tyranical gear: 493 ilvl
Elite tyranical gear: 515 ilvl

This was my question. The had earlier announced that Malevolent gear would be available at a reduced 476 ilvl, but then reading this blog makes zero mention, leading players to believe they'll get 483 gear with honor.

So, if these numbers are correct, that means those without full Malevolent need to finish their sets rather than upgrading current pieces (which would be a good option if 483 gear is available w/ honor in 5.2).

However, that jump from 493 to 515 seems huge, and nothing whatsoever like what they talk about in the blog.

Lets hope that datamined data is just that and nothing more.
01/23/2013 05:54 PMPosted by Daxxarri
  • It's not relevant to 5.2, but we understand that the Item Upgrade system on Conquest gear made a long gear grind even longer. We don’t mind that it takes some time to get awesome stuff, but we also recognize the problems that this presents too, and we’re definitely giving thought to solutions.

  • I don't mind that it takes time to get awesome stuff either.

    I mind that rating and format allow players to get "awesome stuff" more quickly and increase the gear gap every week.
    blizzard you guys are a joke with pvp now me and my friend did 2s last week and guess what?
    at 1400 mmr we ran into GRAND MARSHAL people with t2 upgraded while me and my friend have mostly all dreadful and he didnt even have his t1 weapon yet.

    pvp need so much fixing right now and it is unfair that RBG people get way more points than arena people and they can come into arena and smash people because RBG mmr doesnt carry over to arena.

    and one more thing PLEASE do not ever bring back the CONQUEST UPGRADE system if anything let us upgraded with honor instead.

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