Oh hey, some ideas for Retribution

Hey guys, Val here.

I mostly stick to the general forums, but I occasionally make a foray to the class forums to see what the trending topics of discussion are. I've noticed a lot of threads recently bringing up arguments against a few aspects of the class, particularly the state of Divine Purpose and Inquisition for Retribution. For the purpose of this thread, I'll be addressing Retribution in PvE.

Note: There will be a TL;DR summary at the bottom. Quality of life, etc.

I'll admit that I like the way Retribution feels. I like that our play style revolves around procs and building up for powerful finishers - it's a far cry different from the more direct style of warriors and the melee-DoT hybrid style of death knights. It's a solid style, but it has its flaws.

One of the biggest arguments I've seen against Inquisition is that in a rotation centered around managing procs and building up for finishers, it feels weird and out of place to have to keep up with a maintenance buff, especially one that has such an enormous impact on our performance. 30% Holy damage plus 10% increased crit chance is hard - and stupid - to ignore, but it throws a wrench in the entire experience.

Given that Retribution has a large emphasis on procs, I think it would be a good idea for Inquisition itself to become a proc. The idea I currently have is for it to be triggered whenever one of your abilities that consume Holy Power - namely Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm - land a critical blow. The buff itself would last 15 seconds, and could be refreshed by subsequent crits.

This would admittedly force paladins to reevaluate their stat priorities. Right now, haste reigns supreme, especially in a raid environment, while critical strike rating is fairly low on the totem pole next to mastery. If Inquisition became a crit-based proc, the value of critical strike rating would undoubtedly be increased. (Given that haste would still lead to building Holy Power faster, it would likely not overshadow haste.)

Another complaint I've seen is in regards to Divine Purpose. A lot of people seem to think that it would be best if it were baked into the class, and while I agree, there needs to be some way to replace the talent while still having it be viable. To this end, I think there should be a talent that takes a page from - of all things - Assassination rogues.

Assassination has a passive ability called Seal Fate, which causes your attacks to generate an additional combo point whenever you land a critical strike. If Divine Purpose were to become a passive, I think a talent that operates similarly to Seal Fate would work well as a replacement. An example of the tooltip would be:

Zealous Combatant
Your Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous abilities generate an additional charge of Holy Power whenever you land a critical strike. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

Like the above proposed change to Inquisition, this talent would likely boost the value of critical strike rating, perhaps to a greater degree than haste if you went with Zealous Combatant over Holy Avenger or Sanctified Wrath. This would lead to more a more diverse play style, and I feel would compliment the existing Retribution play style.

These are but a handful of ideas I've had, and admittedly could use some work, but I think that paladins would benefit from these changes. I would like to get some opinions from the rest of the community, particularly those involved with end game PvP and PvE.

  • Turn Divine Purpose into a class-wide passive, replace Divine Purpose talent with an effect similar to Seal Fate for Assassination rogues.
  • Remove Inquisition as a mandatory maintenance buff and replace it with a crit-based proc.
  • Personally, I don't mind a bit of RNG, but IIRC, a lot of paladins didn't like baseline DP because of the RNG aspect. I believe these people would have similar reactions to everything you suggested, seeing as how it is 100% crit based.

    Not saying they are bad ideas, they're actually pretty interesting, I just don't think you could get a majority to go along with this. (and then there's not a very high chance of a change like this happening mid xpack, especially since it would flip our stat priorities around)
    RNG is a finicky mechanic, I'll give you that. The way I look at it though, I'd rather deal with a proc than go out of my way to ensure my one and only maintenance buff has 100% up time. The added unpredictability makes things a little more...reactive, I guess you could say.

    Some might argue that it makes for a shallow experience, but I disagree. There's nothing really interesting about Inquisition with its current design. Needless complexity does not make for an engaging experience. I can't really say much in defense of Divine Purpose being baseline other than I liked it as a baseline passive and I want it back. =P

    Anyway, I'm well aware that it's a tall order, especially in the middle of an expansion pack. This is more along the lines of something to consider for the expansion following MoP, whatever it may be.
    People didn't like DP in cata because everything was RNG for rets in cata
    on top of all that our only way to get holy power was by CS. WE ARE IN MOP NOW everything we do grants holy power, really don't understand why people keep bringing up the whole RNG thing, it wouldn't even be a problem anymore.
    There are literally posts like this every day that say the same thing you are. You might want to jump in one of those and keep those discussions going, instead of inundating this forum in more redundancy.

    You'll get a better discussion that way too.
    There are literally posts like this every day that say the same thing you are. You might want to jump in one of those and keep those discussions going, instead of inundating this forum in more redundancy.

    You'll get a better discussion that way too.

    Those threads are less about discussion and more about tallying who is pro-baseline DP and who is anti-baseline DP. I've been in them, most of the posts consist of "you're wrong for x reason." It's a vicious circle, and most ideas and suggestions are buried because of it.

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