Regarding what GC just said in a Q&A

I don't quite get why some players are fixated on baseline DP as the One True Solution to sustained DPS woes. It's... one possible fix, sure. It's also reasonably likely to tick off a whole bunch of players (although, granted, Ret is different enough now that it just as easily might be acceptable). DP is also not a great source of reliable sustained damage; its random nature and ability to proc from itself makes it inherently bursty.

I'm just not sure why baseline DP would even be preferable to something that much more directly addresses the issue, like increasing Censure or the Sword of Light passive damage bonus or something.
I wouldnt mind seeing it become baseline, but they'd probably nerf the proc rate.
I'm all for it being baseline. It really wouldn't hurt us now compared to how it was in Cata.
But I just have a gut feeling that Blizz would just nerf something else of ours that doesn't need a nerf, in a terrible attempt to "balance" DP being baseline.
01/21/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Havia
But I just have a gut feeling that Blizz would just nerf something else of ours that doesn't need a nerf, in a terrible attempt to "balance" DP being baseline.

This is pretty much why I'm against a reintegration of DP into the baseline abilities of Ret. They'd likely either, a) gut the proc-rate to near Cata levels of irritating proc-lessness; or, b) nerf TV damage with the rationale that "they can proc free TVs whenever they want, so we need to tone it down a bit."
If DP was baseline again, our base dps would be balanced against a random proc that does more damage than exorcism (which is a different beast as we'll be able to push Exo eventually)

Its not an ability we need baseline anymore and I'd rather our DPS not be subject to any more RNG than Exocism baseline.

If you like DP, talent for it, but dont force terrible RNG on the rest of us. As it is right now, DP is purely bonus.
If they make it baseline, they better not !@#$ with the proc rate. last thing I want is to lose the RNG that wins me fights in pvp.

If anything, baseline holy avenger.
Seriously would they really need to nerf dps to compensate? Just how much better would having say Sanctified Wrath and Divine Purpose be to dps?

Probably, yes. Substantially better, which is why this is being proposed in the first place after all?

It's not the only possible fix for PvP sustained woes, and as possible fixes go, it's not even a particularly good one.
Blizzard likes where Ret is right now, so yes, if they gave us a damage buff they'd nerf something to compensate. Most likely our cooldowns, since they've mentioned increasing sustained and nerfing burst.
Some quick sims suggest it's on the order of +5% overall DPS, for single-target. And it's important to stress that randomness is inherently streaky: that damage won't tend to be nicely spread out over time. Or in other words, RNG procs (especially procs that can proc themselves!) are inherently burst abilities, and they're not even controllable burst like cooldowns are.

There's not a strict limit of one patch note per spec. They could just as easily implement two separate fixes for two separate issues. Two birds with one stone is appealing of course, but it's a less than ideal fix for either problem; survivability is something you generally don't want to rely on RNG for.
Last I looked DP was about a 5% dps increase so I don't know how you math that out to be a loss. Making it baseline will always be an increase in our current dps which could use the boost, even if they knock the proc rate down it will still be a positive and welcomed increase.

Those who are against it for RNG reasons...we went from being a very RNG spec to having none (exo doesn't really count). If you play the spec even semi-competently you know your priorities and nothing really shakes it up. That's why DP is a good way to increase dps, it is an increase in numbers and makes the rotation more fun. As someone before me said it's now a nice bonus as opposed to a necessity like in Cata because our resource generation isn't such a mess. Sure we could just get flat increases to existing abilities but that would be boring.
01/21/2013 08:59 PMPosted by Tbolt
Last I looked DP was about a 5% dps increase so I don't know how you math that out to be a loss

5% how? If it always procs? How much of a dps decrease is it if it never procs?

Thats whats bad about RNG.
I really did not like DP, thank god they made it a talent.
I would much rather see a change and slight buff to the DP talent than see it brought back as baseline for ret (which would require us to be re-balanced). As it stands right now DP is a usefull talent choice for both prot and holy and I personally dont want to see them lose it.

If blizz were to bring DP back as baseline our defensive and offensive kits would have to be re-tooled around an unreliable proc, again something people don't want to see.

I propose upping the chance for the DP talent to proc but removing it's ability to proc off of itself. As a guess I would put it at somewhere in the 45% ~55% range. This would give the people who want more sustained damage a better option for it, while also providing that fun factor some people miss. On top of it all DP would be a lot more reliable making it a more attractive choice for PVP.

Make the DP talent more fun and more viable don't bring DP back as base line

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