Let us see how many bosses are dead already..

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01/25/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Jola
he was referring to the hour long queue - he had to queue TWICE for an hour each time to kill all bosses once instead of queue ONCE for an hour to kill all bosses once


Sure, and if we just let people pick and choose raids to join there could be 24 other people dropping group to wait in queue again. There are a few things you can do in the game all by yourself that don't involve other players, and we can try to make sure those really work as a single player experience. Raiding just can't be one of them.

And, taking a step back, LFR continues to offer an exceptional experience and reward for time invested value versus it not existing.

01/25/2013 11:37 AMPosted by Dìviné
If he saw 2/3 bosses then what would he do? cancel the queue? Well then he has to wait again either way.


Oh, and that. :)
When I needed loot from LFR, I would only accept queues from places that were fresh raids. I do not want to waste my time in partial clears. If I still needed loot, and entered an LFR that was 1/3 or 2/3 I would leave it immediately and do dailies / level alts for 30 minutes while I have the debuff.

Now since I don't need loot anymore from there I don't care and am perfectly fine with 2/3 since it just gets me the VP faster. But likewise on the alts who need gear, I only go through with 0/3 LFRs and immediately leave anything other than a fresh raid. Not displaying the number of bosses dead effectively just means I get 30 minutes to do something else in the meantime if I don't want to join.

I have heard all too often "you will get a fresh instance if you finish your partial clear first." This is a flat out lie. It's slightly more likely to be the case since there is one less partial clear to join, but if there are multiple partial clears out there you will be put into another partial clear that you can help finish over a fresh run.
Looking for raid is easier and more of a joke than questing, stop crying about it.
he was referring to the hour long queue - he had to queue TWICE for an hour each time to kill all bosses once instead of queue ONCE for an hour to kill all bosses once
But if you refuse the raid you have to requeue again and sit in another hour long queue.

Though I have never seen an hour long queue, myself, half hour is the longest I've seen.
its an hour for me the last 3 weeks i queued on my 90 - the OP is QQing about HAVING to queue twice BECAUSE the game does not just put him in a fresh instance the FIRST pop, which i already explained that it cant because it has to clear out the in-progress instances before it can create fresh ones...
01/25/2013 11:32 AMPosted by Bojay
If you enter and complete a partial clear you will be given priority for a fresh run the next time you enter the queue, letting you pick up any missed bosses. The 45 Valor for completing that run too isn't a bad deal, either.


So...if I sit in queue for 45 minutes...you're saying I'm guaranteed a fresh run after I sit in queue for 45 more minutes? 90 minutes of queue to get 1 fresh run?
Gee...thanks. :-(


Being able to see the number of bosses down doesn't get you a fresh run any faster. If you refused a group you had to wait in queue again, and that second time you still may not have gotten a fresh run.

Being able to see the number of dead bosses mostly just caused people that didn't really think about what they were doing waste their OWN time, as well as that of others, by queue fishing. There are very few instances where queue dodging actually caused you to spend less time doing LFR.
01/25/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Bashiok
he was referring to the hour long queue - he had to queue TWICE for an hour each time to kill all bosses once instead of queue ONCE for an hour to kill all bosses once


Sure, and if we just let people pick and choose raids to join there would be up to 24 other people dropping group to wait in queue again. There are a few things you can do in the game all by yourself that don't involve other players, and we can try to make sure those really work as a single player experience. Raiding just can't be one of them.
yes, i understand that, i also understand that the system HAS to clear out in-progress instances before it can create any more fresh instances, i just wonder why others dont understand?
01/25/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Jola


I generally find I'm in a 2/3 partial, and when I re-queue to pick up those first two bosses it does not take an hour to down the final boss. Is it taking you an hour to kill a boss?

45 valor for about 15 minutes more of my time is pretty efficient.
he was referring to the hour long queue - he had to queue TWICE for an hour each time to kill all bosses once instead of queue ONCE for an hour to kill all bosses once

If he saw 2/3 bosses then what would he do? cancel the queue? Well then he has to wait again either way.
I can see both sides of this, yes it sucks to get an in progress run especially for a dps on the other hand it sucks for everyone stuck in an in progress run if people don't join the run.

It's very much a case of bite the bullet and take one for the team because over all it's better to put people into in progress runs. Look at it from this perspective if blizzard didn't put people into in progress runs you could very likely be the person stuck in a half done run that no one was joining.
01/25/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
Please bring back the raid preview.
How about no.

It was changed because previously groups in progress would be stuck waiting indefinitely for replacements because no one would accept the queue for a partial run.
Now that the raids have been out a while, some people run them just for the valor and have no interest in the drops, and would prefer partials.

Hiding whether stuff is already dead makes sense for a while after a raid opens up. After a couple of months, I don't know that there's a need.
When I needed loot from LFR, I would only accept queues from places that were fresh raids. I do not want to waste my time in partial clears. If I still needed loot, and entered an LFR that was 1/3 or 2/3 I would leave it immediately and do dailies / level alts for 30 minutes while I have the debuff.

Now since I don't need loot anymore from there I don't care and am perfectly fine with 2/3 since it just gets me the VP faster. But likewise on the alts who need gear, I only go through with 0/3 LFRs and immediately leave anything other than a fresh raid. Not displaying the number of bosses dead effectively just means I get 30 minutes to do something else in the meantime if I don't want to join.

I have heard all too often "you will get a fresh instance if you finish your partial clear first." This is a flat out lie. It's slightly more likely to be the case since there is one less partial clear to join, but if there are multiple partial clears out there you will be put into another partial clear that you can help finish over a fresh run.


It isn't a lie. You get put in a different queue if you've already killed the final boss of that wing. You will virtually never be given another partial run after you've killed the final boss in that wing that week. Feel free to continue wasting your own time by leaving groups on your alts, though. If you actually are interested in killing all of the bosses, completing the partial run and re-queuing for a fresh run is faster than queue dodging.

Are you honestly suggesting that Blizzard is just lying about the priority queue to try to trick people into staying in partial runs?
Overall, this is not that big of a deal.
01/25/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Bashiok
he was referring to the hour long queue - he had to queue TWICE for an hour each time to kill all bosses once instead of queue ONCE for an hour to kill all bosses once


Sure, and if we just let people pick and choose raids to join there could be 24 other people dropping group to wait in queue again. There are a few things you can do in the game all by yourself that don't involve other players, and we can try to make sure those really work as a single player experience. Raiding just can't be one of them.

And, taking a step back, LFR continues to offer an exceptional experience and reward for time invested value versus it not existing.

I was under the impression the progressions what made invisible to make queue times shorter. While dps queues for certain LFRs seem lower, there are 1 hour queues still.
I do not see how it hurts to show that progression. No matter how many different other things you can do while waiting..
01/25/2013 11:39 AMPosted by Asthas
You get put in a different queue if you've already killed the final boss of that wing.
while this is true, it WILL pull you out of that queue for a partial IF the other queue needs to in order to give the other 24 players as short a queue as possible
01/25/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Bashiok
Is it taking you an hour to kill a boss?


I've been in LFRs where it takes longer than an hour, usually on the last boss. You know, the one you always get instead of a fresh run after waiting 40-50 minutes in a queue (dps) ;)

So...when you finally get the boss down (add in a bit of extra time for those who /rage quit and then we have to wait for replacements) then it's another 40-50 minute queue to get the bosses you missed.

Sure I can kill queue time doing dailies, farming, pet battles or if I really want to torture myself Archaeology (darn you, bug mount!!!) but I have to plan for a few hours to get all the bosses in ONE raid whereas if I get a fresh run it might take less than an hour and I might have a chance to do more than one.

I don't have a solution although I fully understand the problem of not showing bosses killed, but on the flip side it is very discouraging combined with low RNG. 45 Valor isn't nearly enough as that works out to about 15 Valor an hour :P
01/25/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Jola
Oh boy 45 valor. For wasting probably an hour of our time?
you did not waste your time, since you would have had to wait the same amount of time for someone ELSE to help clear that in-progress instance if you did not help in order to make room for the fresh instance YOU want - so, since you helped clear the in-progress instance, you got 45 valor, if you did not help, you would have sat in the queue for that time with no valor...


Well, except that you could have been out doing dailies or doing a gathering profession while you waited for your fresh run to pop. Dailies, which, btw ... do give valor.
You get put in a different queue if you've already killed the final boss of that wing.
while this is true, it WILL pull you out of that queue for a partial IF the other queue needs to in order to give the other 24 players as short a queue as possible


While its not impossible to get a second partial run, its personally never happened to me and the only cases I've ever heard of it are people going to the forums to complain that it happened to them. It happens so rarely you may as well just assume that you'll get a fresh run the second time.

Seems like it should only be a concern if you are trying to do your LFR in the dead of night at the end of the week.
LFR seems to work more smoothly in general after the change. I almost always get a fresh instance when I queue, and having the group refill quickly after drops is way better than waiting 10+ minutes for that one healer who won't cancel out.

But when you do get a partial, you still feel screwed if you have long queue times. You should be allowed to re-queue for a fresh instance at the front of the line immediately after finishing a partial LFR. If that were the case, no one would care where they start.
01/25/2013 11:12 AMPosted by Stormelder
Please bring back the raid preview.


This doesn't solve the actual problem that's making your situation unpleasant, which is long queue times. Healers are the problem in long queue times and one of the very large problems there is that alt-spec gear isn't available to them if they queue as healers. So right now you have lots main spec healers that want to go into LFR to gear their offspecs but are unable to do so as a role that will help keep the queues moving.

Also 6 healers is a tad excessive for LFR. That number could safely drop to 5 and that would help, too.

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