Let us see how many bosses are dead already..

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Wow. Seems I started something (or provided another outlet for existing frustations).

I've seen some references made to the "OP" and what are my expectations, demands, and so forth and accusing me of crying about the current system.

My desire when I posted this was to suggest that players be allowed to make an informed decision about whether or not they'd like to enter a partial raid by knowing how many, if any, bosses were already down. I, like others, have had times when I was happy to do one boss, get my valor and move on.

The specific situation which caused me post was that I already had my sha-touched weapon (yay!) but I was still 3 sigils of wisdom short of turning in the quest so that I could get the quest allowing me to loot the Chimera-of-whatsit from the final boss in Terrace. My hope (a long shot, no doubt) was to do the first 3 bosses in Terrace, miraculously get the 3 sigils I needed, pop out while Lei Shen is walking to the Sha, turn in the old quest and pick up the new (I joined LFR from the Veiled Stair), then pop back in before the final encounter started. Huzzah! Gemmed raid finder healing mace before the reset. Yes my motivation was selfish. Guilty. I didn't want to kill the Sha, THEN get the sigils and have to wait for the reset to get the item from the Sha.

But I also didn't understand how LFR worked. Some posters have suggested that only one instance is running at a time. I thought if you had 50 ppl of the appropriate roles among all 5(?) realms in your battlegroup that you could have 2 or more iterations of the same raid going at once. My mistake.

And after reading stories of hour long queues or waiting in the instance for 30 minutes or more for enough ppl willing to join a partial raid, I have sympathy for you guys. I've always been on Silvermoon usually at "peak" times and have never had to deal with that kind of wait.

Personally, I would still like to know what I'm signing up for before accepting the LFR invite but I have a better understanding of why the system was changed and if it works better for the majority of WoW players then I'm on board. Although I wouldn't say no to some incentives for completing a partial run that have already been suggested.

After all, daddy's gots to get paid...
01/25/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Bashiok
Oh boy 45 valor. For wasting probably an hour of our time? Not including the time wasted for the second queue and raid.

I generally find I'm in a 2/3 partial, and when I re-queue to pick up those first two bosses it does not take an hour to down the final boss. Is it taking you an hour to kill a boss?

45 valor for about 15 minutes more of my time is pretty efficient.

Sometimes it takes 15 minutes, other times it takes multiple wipes because some players are doing things wrong.

I personally don't understand the current system. It rewards the LFR groups that aren't good enough to down a boss while punishing the players that were already forced into a partially finished LFR. I understand it should be accessible, but at some point you have to stop catering to everyone that lacks the ability to down such bosses. I much rather wipe on the final boss and have to do all three again, rather than queing into a 2/3 run twice in a row. It just re-introduces the problem anyway, as all the players that already got the final boss will be leaving upon reaching the final boss from a clean run.
Personal Experience from Last Week:

I Q'd up for Hall of Mysteries (MSV #2) and when I entered the instance, the first boss (Spirit Kings, IIRC?) was already dead and they were on the trash leading to Elegon.

So, I fought and killed Elegon and Will, killed those. I knew that for my Death Knight, Elegon can drop a weapon.

So I used a coin on Elegon. No drop, but meh. But this left me 1 boss still up, so I Q'd up again. We kill the Kings and I use another coin on Elegon (still no drop..) and we kill Will.

I didn't mind it too much; I got some more practice (I don't get caught up in Flanking Orders anymore, unlike the first time lol), and I'm faster at switching from Elegon to his energy charges, and on Will, I'm a little more skilled at knowing when/where adds are going to spawn.

And I got 3 chances at that sword instead of 2 so I don't mind, AND I got 45 VP on the 2nd run, so 135 VP > 90 VP.

tl;dr: Doing the raid twice isn't THAT bad. 3 rolls on an item of my choice as long as my coins hold out, and an extra 45 VP, for what... 20-25min of work? I'm not gonna complain.

What I WOULD complain about, however is if I joined a fresh LFR run, and if 3 people drop after Kings or what-not and then we sit there waiting on healers or a tank for 45+min because peeps keep re-queuing when they see a partial run.
Here's a notion: let people, when they queue, indicate whether they want a fresh run only, or prefer a partially-complete run, or don't care. People looking mainly for VP or for a specific drop off a later boss would generally be psyched to join a partially-complete run, while others would prefer a fresh one. Everyone gets what they want, everyone is happy!

This could even be accomplished pretty much by a checkbox on the queueing screen saying "Fresh run only" or the like.
Why are you people arguing for LESS choices? I honestly haven't seen any significant change in queue times, or spot-filling times since this change went live. Even if there is an improvement, it's certainly a negligible amount of time.

There are plenty of people running LFG. No reason not to let people run whatever bosses they want or need.
*I havent read the whole thread* so take this for what you will, and if someone else has said this already...i agree with that person.

There seems to be a lot of talk about people not wanting to join a partially downed instance, so then they have to re-queue to finish it themselves. Thats the gist I get from this thread. I dont ever see anyone ask if there is something Blizz can do to stop people from dropping early in the first place. I can think of three reasons people drop queue early:
1) IRL happens, and you need to step away from the computer.
2) Fail group. you can tell pretty quickly if a 3 boss LFR will take you 30 mins or 90 mins.
3) someone comes in for a specific bosses loot table and leaves once they've gotten their gear chance.

While 1 & 2 are pretty far out of Blizzard control...#3 happens a lot and I feel like it could be made better. Whether it is because of someone trying to get one thing for an off set, or that last upgrade from the 3 boss instance for their main spec; people dropping group because they have no personal benefit for putting the time in (other than valor which can be had anywhere).

I think if you just made the LFR loot table so it was instance based, rather than boss based...meaning someone could have up to 3 chances to get that item they need, but would have a lower chance of getting a specific item each time because of how many other items are on the table. At least it would give people the incentive to stay for all three bosses. Going one step further (and i know this has been said before) but once the loot roll takes place, and someone gets loot...have an option to say main spec or off spec, or just present a quest style turn in so I can pick between 2 different spec items. That will keep me queuing as a healer and keeping queue times down, while allowing me a chance to get a DPS piece that I want (this would also help avoid people queuing as a healer and then just DPSing the whole time without saying anything).

That obviously wont fix the problem, but I feel like it would make it better.
I got into MSV earlier this week where the first boss was already down. I finished the run, and then queued later for that segment again. I got a fresh run killed the first boss, then left.

My only issue with it all is that I felt bad that I left after the first boss and perpetuated the chain for someone else. I'd have been happy to stay to keep that from happening if there was any advantage to me doing so. Give me something to make me want to stay, because the 45 VP at the end of the second run doesn't cut it when I'm capping every week by Saturday anyway.
I suggest a 24 hour deserter debuff. With 24 hours people are less likely to leave after wipes or bosses they need. It could even be a scaling debuff, based off the amount of times you have left a lfr early. That way it doesn't fully start to penalize those who have rl situations come up.
01/25/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Bashiok
Well I appreciate the quote, at least. But, and don't take this the wrong way, think back to a time not-that-long-ago before LFR existed. How much raid content were you seeing then, how far had you progressed, and what was the time investment? I'm not saying we don't want LFR to be a smooth and pleasant experience, or be accessible, but it's putting 25 people together to let them see, experience, and even get awesome items from end-game content. That is pretty amazing. Automated game systems can only do so much to ensure it's a pleasant experience on the personal terms and whims for every single person.

Not having read all of these pages so far I would suggest the easiest fix to the insane LFR que times is to let the healers (and possibly tanks) roll on OS gear that could drop. I mean that's pretty much the issue. There's only 2 spots for tanks and 6 for healers. Once they get the few pieces of gear available for that spec only there is zero incentive for them to go back in there. Now if they can still run as a healer and have the possibilty of getting that OS gear then they would more than likely que up still. I don't know off hand what kind of code would need to be written so the game knows what the OS of each player is but it should at least be looked at I think.
killed all bosses except 1st boss.

Queued for 45min, joined, not the 1st boss.

Left and got 30 min debuff.

After 30 min, re-queue for 45 min again.

Joined, not the 1st boss.

Left and got 30 min debuff.

Repeat until got 1st boss.

You understand, however legitimate the concern is (and I share it), the above example is very very highly unlikely, as you're placed into priority fresh after a partial clear. It CAN happen, but the odds are very miniscule.

Now more and more players stopped using LFR, maybe they got enough gears? Maybe they rather do dailies to get gears? Maybe they got Guild Run? It also depends on the server populations, now my queue time is much longer than before 5.1
I actually WANT to be able to choose the 2/3 instance so that I can get vp as quickly as possible. I would do lfr again and maybe actually cap vp every week if I could do this, but until then I've found it's better to stay away from lfr and just do dailies.
The only raid I have this issue in anymore is MOV part 2. IT seemms like every week when I queue for that dungeon I am on the final boss. At this point it does not bother me as the only reason I do MOV in RF is for Valor points now. In fact I have only done the first 2 bosses in this raid a couple of time due to getting in at 2/3 so often.

I don't understand why people don't just stick around for the whole raid. I mean none of the raids are really all that long. IF your going to stay there to kill 2 out of 3 you might as well kill the final boss for your 90 valor points.
No idea if this idea was put out there, long thread, not going to read every post. But my idea is that if players could pick when they queue if they want a certain boss, and if there is a dungeon in progress with said boss up, they get priority into the queue for that particular raid.

What this would allow is people that actually just want a certain boss to get into a group more often, leading to less players being disgruntled.

The of course downside is that actually getting into a group might go slightly slower than before, but you're more likely to get into a fresh group, as (hopefully) someone took your spot in the in progress run.

I know when I was running Terrace 3 times a week for the Sha axe, I would have -loved- to have gotten Terraces just on Sha. When I would requeue, I would have to do the whole raid zone again, 2 more times just to get to Sha. There wasn't even a chance to get an in progress group, because I was already prioritized to get a fresh group. The current system actually worked -against- me. : (

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