Rogues on the PTR are flat out broken

Arenas
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There is no need for Shuriken Toss to do the amount of damage it does....and it should NOT be spam-able.


Howling Blast, Death Siphon. I mean If you're talking about Warriors' Heroic Throw being completely useless I agree it needs changed to a rage dump.

Howling Blast, Death Siphon. I mean If you're talking about Warriors' Heroic Throw being completely useless I agree it needs changed to a rage dump.


Please no, just make it have Gag Order again and it'll be worth pressing again.
01/24/2013 09:01 PMPosted by Mafic
Is this a serious post lol?


It is, the real question is how are you dieing to two pet auto attacking, stampede equates to a full pet (25%X4). Only one of which is affected by bw.
01/24/2013 09:05 PMPosted by Eigahata
There is no need for Shuriken Toss to do the amount of damage it does....and it should NOT be spam-able.


Howling Blast, Death Siphon. I mean If you're talking about Warriors' Heroic Throw being completely useless I agree it needs changed to a rage dump.


You don't ever really have any energy to dump as a rogue... now if it MADE energy but cost combo points... that'd be awesome, at least that way you would use it as a kiting mechanism without the nigh limitless use component and being able to build offensive potential whilst you're at range. Hell, it means there's a genuine downside to being at range other than the normally penalty of just sitting in roots.
Can you clarify if you mean Shuriken Toss the actual ability or are you just talking about the auto-attack?


The active ability and its auto-attack component will behave the same way.


I thought ST was our substitute for our bad mobility, what's the point of it if it can't proc crippling

I'd rather you don't buff its damage at all but leave its ability to proc slows

I for one care more about the ranged snare and combo point generation than some kind of damage boost.


That really is the issue everyone has with it on the PTR. It's too powerful.


That's already live and nobody's complained about it.

That's already live and nobody's complained about it.


That's because...

...No one in live is dueling rogues on the PTR!

Sorry, I just really hate it on the PTR. It's obnoxious and anti-fun. One rogue seriously had a macro that spammed /lol and /spit every time he used toss :|

That's already live and nobody's complained about it.


That's because...

...No one in live is dueling rogues on the PTR!

Sorry, I just really hate it on the PTR. It's obnoxious and anti-fun. One rogue seriously had a macro that spammed /lol and /spit every time he used toss :|


That must have been so horrible for you. I'm sorry.

Shuriken Toss without the the non lethal poison application, even with 75% auto attack damage, would be a nerf to an ability they're trying to buff.

At best it would become cheesy and stupid and at worst unusable in PVP.
I hope all the devs aren't reading too far into these people complaining that rogues aren't free kills anymore.


They still die just as fast....
01/24/2013 09:31 PMPosted by Skill
I hope all the devs aren't reading too far into these people complaining that rogues aren't free kills anymore.


They still die just as fast....


There you go, we're still squishy, confirmed by scientific fact.

/thread, nothing to see here, happy valentines all.

xoxo
01/24/2013 09:29 PMPosted by Crookston
At best it would become cheesy and stupid and at worst unusable in PVP.
So the ability to generate combo points quickly and efficiently while still putting out pretty good dps at range is unusable in PvP? The poison application was just overkill.
01/24/2013 09:20 PMPosted by Crookston
That's already live and nobody's complained about it.
Because rogues have some very obvious and exploitable weaknesses on live. Once their kit got better, the mechanics that weren't "complained" about before become issues. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the live version of ST. The damage is minimal enough to allow poison application. But Blizz has decided they want rogues doing more ranged damage, or at least have a talent choice to allow for that, so the damage was increased (by a fair bit) and the poison application became overkill.
01/24/2013 09:31 PMPosted by Skill
They still die just as fast....
Yes, but now they have more mobility and escape mechanisms. Which is what rogues are about. Lockdown your opponent, and get the heck out of there when you start to lose control of the situation. So while they're still squishy, their survivability is going up next patch. Which is really all thats terribly wrong with rogues on live. They lack mobility, and lack escape mechanisms. I'm really happy about the prep change and some of the changes to some of the talents. I'm confused about any of the damage buffs. They just don't need it imo.
01/24/2013 09:13 PMPosted by Chiffley


The active ability and its auto-attack component will behave the same way.


I thought ST was our substitute for our bad mobility, what's the point of it if it can't proc crippling

I'd rather you don't buff its damage at all but leave its ability to proc slows
this 100%, nerf the damage so it's reasonable (not bad) and keep the snare
The only thing overkill about my lvl 90 Horde Rogue is that he is killed over and over in any pvp encounter. You don't know much about Rogues if you use Rogue and the word overkill in the same sentence.

I haven't tried out the S-toss yet but it sounds like more of too little too late for the Rogue class. I won't even go back into a bg to see or check it out.

My Rogue is still a herb-farmer only and sends potions to my new Warrior. I haven't used him for anything else since the 3rd week into the release of MoP.

I will wait for the next expansion to see what Rogues will do. Not the next patch. The last little patch didn't do anything and I have no confidence in this next one.

I appreciate it that Blizz has tried to fix the major screw up that happened to our class in MoP, I commend you for that; However it was far too frustrating to see all the hard work of leveling him to 90, then see it all go down the drain overnight.

I still want to WARN upcoming Rogues to bail on the class now. Once you hit lvl 86 your in for shock and awe at how easily you will die.

Only if you are an excellent, excellent player, totally knowledgeable of all the Rogue abilities
will you be able to do anything with the class. Most players are not the primo type. Even if you're a bit above average, you still won't be able to cut it as a Rogue. Get out now and wait for the next expansion.
So the ability to generate combo points quickly and efficiently while still putting out pretty good dps at range is unusable in PvP? The poison application was just overkill.


Potentially, yes. Shuriken Toss is effective as a kiting/anti kite mechanic. Turning it into a pure damage ability without the snare potential will not help you close in on someone you're trying to catch nor will it keep someone who wants to catch you away. Consequently, the level 90 talent used on it will probably be better served for additional burst or immediate combo point generation unless the damage on Shuriken is just too good to pass up, in which case it becomes, as I said, cheesy and stupid.

They took poison off of Throw several months ago to push Rogue into taking Shuriken Toss. Now they're taking utility poison off of Shuriken Toss, leaving Blind as the only ranged control mechanism of any kind in the rogue toolkit. For a class with bad mobility, that's not a good thing. Outright removal of a ranged snare for Rogues would be a pretty significant nerf to a class that isn't currently in need of a nerf in the relative mobility department and would far outpace any mobility gain a second sprint adds.

Because rogues have some very obvious and exploitable weaknesses on live. Once their kit got better, the mechanics that weren't "complained" about before become issues. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the live version of ST. The damage is minimal enough to allow poison application. But Blizz has decided they want rogues doing more ranged damage, or at least have a talent choice to allow for that, so the damage was increased (by a fair bit) and the poison application became overkill.


The problems with ST are on the PTR where damage and the auto attack aspect of it applying poisons have caused it to grow far too strong. So the answer isn't to alter the new components that have made it OP but to nerf the part that made it valuable (but acceptable) in the first place? Please.

The live version is fine. If the new version can't keep the snare in tact due to the additional auto attack damage, just leave it alone altogether.
I don't much care for sub or mut, I am combat through and through, I am looking forward to some of these changes as they may or may not make combat more or less viable, if anything nerf the sub only buffs since everyone seems to be complaining about sub. but don't nerf combat brah, don't do it! infact give me a buff, 5% ap increase just isn't enough... that being said, I have always used prep this xpac and always used cloak of shadows as a defensive ability for offense, have to with all the cc flying out there.
01/24/2013 04:16 PMPosted by Coontlipsx
you literally said you don't PVP

And? I don't PVP because I don't enjoy it. Sue me. It doesn't mean I've never PVP'd or have no idea what I'm doing.

you therefore have no idea what impact this has on PVP, and shouldn't be commenting

Get off your high horse. I have just as much right to post here as you do. And unless your main is a Rogue, changes to my talents impact me more than they do you.

it's fine to make suggestions for both PVE and PVP in mind but your "omg nerfing my PVE because of PVP? bawww" attitude is just as childish as our responses

ST on live is fine. Rogues still get roflstomped even with crippling poison procs. /sarcasm

Hey, here's a thought... Maybe the problem is with what Blizzard is doing with the ability and not how it functions currently?

01/24/2013 04:16 PMPosted by Anurakis
So you come on the arena forums to complain?

Actually, I didn't even look where I was posting. I came here via the link on MMO and responded.

I will. Break. Your. Legs.

NO EXCEPTIONS.

What is with you? You act like a five year old. Threats like that on a message board are creepy. Cut it out.

01/24/2013 07:14 PMPosted by Crookston
I for one care more about the ranged snare and combo point generation than some kind of damage boost.

This! This is where ST shines. How about giving Rogues the choice of using a glyph that removes the autoattack ability in return for proccing non-lethal poison? Maybe that might please everybody, I dunno.
Due to a miscommunication, I included some incorrect information in my opening post in this thread, Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing non-lethal poisons like Crippling or Paralytic. It will continue to activate damaging poisons.

Sorry about that! =(

This should clarify matters Lufia?


FWIW, I've literally had to give up PvP on my rogue since we lost Shiv (read: cooldown + no longer undodgeable). Shuriken Toss crippling is the only thing getting me into melee range at all when I do try, otherwise it's the ol 'too far away' while seeing my player model clipping theirs.
do melee need to have sustained pressure from range?

why have ranged dps at all, if melee can do everything?


Not really. Take the damage, leave the snare.
What is with you? You act like a five year old. Threats like that on a message board are creepy. Cut it out.


lol'd irl

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