Rogues on the PTR are flat out broken

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Buff the damage so its viable for PVE switching...thanks blizzard for finding another reason to let rogs get kited. PVP ST allowed us to close our bad mobility gaps.
To be perfectly honest, Daxx, if you guys want rogues to use Shuriken Toss, Anticipation has to become baseline, and replaced with something equally as interesting as ST and the new level 90 talent.

Anticipation is pretty much REQUIRED in PvE. Losing that extra combo point or two from a crit as assassination, or from SnS proccing an extra combo point from revealing strike is extremely hampering.

With Anticipation, we can go for 5 combo point Envenom/Rupture/Eviserate, without worrying about losing combo points, which impacts our DPS massively.

If you want the level 90 talents to be a choice for PvE AND PvP, make Anticipation baseline. Do not nerf it however, it's one of the few things I enjoy about rogue. If it were to disappear, I'd probably stop playing Lufia. I do not like classes that require watching things like a hawk. (Not to mention OCD kind of makes using skills at 4 combo points difficult. >_>)

There's a reason I cannot tank on my monk. (Which I still think is BS. You guys say you don't know why there's still a tank shortage with adding DKs and Monks. When DKs got the overhaul and DK tanking was made easier,, the queue times dropped dramatically. But when it comes to brewmasters having a higher skill level than other tanks to play, you guys are all "Oh, we're fine with it." If you want more people to play, make brewmaster simpler to play. Yes, some will argue it's already simple, and to be honest it is. But in order to be GOOD at it, as in, not making the healer go OOM every single pull,, and not dying on bosses, you need a very high skill level, which most people just do not have.
I have a great idea

Leave shuriken toss alone, it's fine as it is

Give us feint usable in stuns and prep baseline

Rogue is fixed and not over the top, tada
^^^ yes ^^^

They really should just leave ST alone if this is their idea of a buff. How many threads have there been with rogues begging for increased dmg? (very very few!) Our biggest hindrances have been mobility and survivability. So why in the world would they up our dmg at the cost of both mobility and survivability?

I really thought the change to ST was to help compensate for them not really doing much for our mobility. Figured they would tinker with the dmg before it went live and we'd be in a pretty decent spot. But if the neuter our only way to close the gap on people... well game over.
Time to reroll to a rogue.... oh wait i'm already a rogue!

So since MOP came out rogues have had it pretty tough and now we get some minor improvements and every other class is here to add their QQ. Suck it up we needed some love and we promise to share it with all you lovely folks in battlegrounds.
I can't believe people are complaining about this. This is the only thing that makes us, even slightly, able to match up against mages and hunters. just because you won't kill us 100% of the time anymore doesn't make these slight buffs OP. BTW we've always done the stuns and spell locking, none of that is new. We can open at a distance...guess what, shadowstep lets us teleport and open...not a big difference. This is just to make us viable again, so don't whine because you can't kite us as much anymore.
If there are further complaints about Shruken Toss and its damage/poison components, you might have to change it to something like this. This'll reduce the damage and remove the poison bits, but still keep it very potent.

80-85% instead of 75% with no chance of applying poisons.

Though the biggest complaint is applying the non lethal poisons which your fixing, so it shouldn't be too bad?

Either that or have the active ability itself have a cooldown or not add combo points. Either or. But it should be fine without non lethal poisons proccing anymore.
I'd much rather see hemorrhage put back on sanguinary vein than have the new auto attack on ST. Current ST is great and doesn't need to be changed.
If there are further complaints about Shruken Toss and its damage/poison components, you might have to change it to something like this. This'll reduce the damage and remove the poison bits, but still keep it very potent.

80-85% instead of 75% with no chance of applying poisons.

Though the biggest complaint is applying the non lethal poisons which your fixing, so it shouldn't be too bad?

Either that or have the active ability itself have a cooldown or not add combo points. Either or. But it should be fine without non lethal poisons proccing anymore.


If by fine you mean stupid and/or !@#$ty, then yes. It would be fine.

The problem with the utility poisons is that they're being proc'd by auto attack shuriken. The skill shuriken has always done that and you're not getting para stunned left and right.

Take poison off shuriken autoattack. Tone down shuriken autoattack damage or remove it entirely. It doesn't have to be where it is.
cuz you'd almost never use rupture in pvp then and they don't want that to happen
^ They specifically went out of their way to make rupture a part of PVP.

The problem is rogue now has 3 uptime finishers
Rupture is stupid and makes rogue clunky
01/24/2013 07:13 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Is the auto attack portion really set in stone? I rather keep Shuriken toss the way it is, and still allowing those poisons to proc without giving them some ridiculous ranged attack with nearly full uptime.


Nothing is set in stone, per se, but Shuriken Toss hasn't proven to be very popular in its current live incarnation.


I know for sure in PvE in almost all cases you're never going to replace Anticipation. Marked for Death has some potential and I'd personally use it VERY situationally but Shrukien Toss would never be considered for the simple fact if you're in melee you'd rather be swinging weapons and/or a fight would have to have a significantly long no melee phase for it to do anything.

Even then with those scenarions, with Shadow Blades and general flow of a rotation Anticipation is just so good that you'll rarely see Rogues stray away from it.
Blizzard tends to exaggerate both nerfs and buffs to a class every patch, They never get it right until the end of an expansion, then comes the new expac and unbalances everything again with changes to every class.
01/25/2013 12:34 AMPosted by Roxeni
cuz you'd almost never use rupture in pvp then and they don't want that to happen


In the current rogue design it would still be beneficial to Rupture (if hemo triggered SV) IF you wanted sustained damage, because of the damage of rupture as well as the extra crits to feed HAT. Instead of right now where it is mandatory even for bursting making rogues far too uptimey.

In cata this was not the case because rupture did piss damage, and rogues had so many crit buffs that feeding HAT wasn't as much of a problem as it is now.
To much Whine in this thread, Not enough Cheese.
... Shuriken Toss hasn't proven to be very popular in its current live incarnation.


I don't know why. In my experience Shuriken Toss has been excellent and one of my new favorite tools in PvP because it currently does proc non-lethal poisons. It does decent enough damage and allows me to slow an enemy (or root them if paralytic stacks enough) so I can at least have a chance of closing the gap if my Shadow Step is down.
01/25/2013 01:28 AMPosted by Bélíál
Blizzard tends to exaggerate both nerfs and buffs to a class every patch, They never get it right until the end of an expansion, then comes the new expac and unbalances everything again with changes to every class.


In the case of Rogues, they didn't even do that. They made Rogues more broken then they had ever been at the end of Cata with a combination of poorly thought out talent placements and practically giving away top tier epic dagger and one of the most OP trinkets to date.

I agree Rogues need help this patch but I think their fall from the heights of near-immortality has altered many perceptions. They are bad on live but not nearly as bad as many will have you believe. Making Preparation, an already broken skill, baseline is nothing short of madness. ST also, while a nice idea is simply tuned too high.

I could go on but at the end of the day, I know it is falling upon mostly deaf ears. Anyone that has played the PTR for 30 min or more know what a joke fighting against a Rogue is and of course, every single Rogue in this forum will be screaming their usual "!@#$ l2p, d00d!" -grade nonsense while denying everything because heaven knows I don't think a single class in the history of WoW has ever made it to the top of the PvP dog-pile with civil and reasonable discussion. I can remember several times for DKs it has been used against us. The fact is, argument from either side is equally pointless. Blizzard have got it in their head Rogues need higher PvP representation and are throwing any sort of illusion of balance to be sacrificed on the Alter of Rogues to change that. (It might have of been nice if that logic was applied for DKs and Hunters when we were bottom of the barrel for Arena representation two expansions in a row but apparently its a different kettle of fish if Rogues are off their lofty perch for a whole session.)

So... Yeah. My apologies if that sounds melodramatic or pessimistic but that is pretty much how we are looking ATM. I think every single one of us has a pretty good idea what is going to happen next patch but for obvious reasons, some of us care more about an actual fair PvP playing field then others. I mean it is not exactly the first time Blizzard have done this but I am pretty sure this is the first time they have done it so brazenly. Even GC on his Twitter has concerns they over-buffed Rogues yet doesn't seem overly concerned about actually doing anything about it.

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