Hard Enrage Timers

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Obviously OP has made up his mind.

Anyone of comes up with logical reasons why this dosnt work is shut out.


I agree. I would contribute to this thread, but after reading over the comments, it seems like OP is trying to derail his own thread.


Not at all. All responses can be easily predicted. There must be 10,000 threads out there with responses from 50,000 raiders that all are the same. We did it. You dont deserve it.

What everyone is saying is basically this: We do not want to allow players to outsmart an encounter. The only allowable options are outgear or outplay. Nothing else can be allowed. But what I do not understand is why anyone would feel threatened by a group who useed their strengths and minimized their weaknesses to oursmart an encounter for a lesser/meAningless reward. Hmm, wonder where I have heard the terms min/max before. Wait. Hardcore raiders.
01/30/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
I challenge you to go find the word "nerf" in anything I have suggested. Hint: You can't. I want the exact same mechanics, just with a scaling reward based upon how well you "beat" it.


Nerfs do not always need to be less hit points or damage done by the boss. What your asking is that the dps requirements to down the boss be lowered by lengthening the fight. Hence you're asking for a nerf.


Well, if you object to raiders using easier content to get gear upgrades even though they are inferior to harder difficulties, you must be LIVID about LFR since it yields more powerful rewards than I propose, and is used by hardcore guilds to defeat normal/heroic raids.

Tell me specifically why a 10 man team defeating Garalon in 8-9 minutes getting 1 LFR quality drop is somehow cheaper than a full guild run in LFR killing Garalon with NO effort at all against lesser mechanics using 1 kiter and no soakers and getting on avg 3-4 drops of the same quality?
It was frustrating to have everyone die during 25m Protectors of the Endless last night. We hit the enrage timer and truly needed about 15 more seconds. Surviving an enraged boss by using cool downs, kiting and smart gameplay is fun. Auto Dying at 1 or 2 % with no recourse is not.

It was my first time seeing the encounter (my raid is 1/6H, 6/6, 1/4 but with only one kill) and there were a few others in my position. We'd have 25 alive, then boom. I'm sure with more work we'll get it again, but I'd have liked to have had the kill.

I wouldn't want the health reduced but I wish it didn't autokill.
01/30/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Felocityqt
But what I do not understand is why anyone would feel threatened by a group who useed their strengths and minimized their weaknesses to oursmart an encounter for a lesser/meAningless reward.


In what way does ignore the mechanics and hit it till it dies like it does in lfr become "out smarting" the encounter?


Because you found a way to survive mechanics to that otherwise kill you if you HAD to beat it in X minutes. That is what outsmarting means. Of course there is a penalty to your deficiancy. You lose reward. Being too deficient removes all reward. You are truly afraid of a team downing YOUR boss and earning a 463 blue? man, do you object to heroics too? they give 463 blues to mash 1 while watching TV. This is MORE of a challenge, and you object. Why?

I agree. I would contribute to this thread, but after reading over the comments, it seems like OP is trying to derail his own thread.


Not at all. All responses can be easily predicted. There must be 10,000 threads out there with responses from 50,000 raiders that all are the same. We did it. You dont deserve it.

What everyone is saying is basically this: We do not want to allow players to outsmart an encounter. The only allowable options are outgear or outplay. Nothing else can be allowed. But what I do not understand is why anyone would feel threatened by a group who useed their strengths and minimized their weaknesses to oursmart an encounter for a lesser/meAningless reward. Hmm, wonder where I have heard the terms min/max before. Wait. Hardcore raiders.


They aren't outsmarting anything. You are removing a standard allowing them to cover their weaknesses. Those aren't the same thing. Outsmarting an encounter or mechanic would involve beating it while staying within other parameters of the fight.
01/30/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Felocityqt
But what I do not understand is why anyone would feel threatened by a group who useed their strengths and minimized their weaknesses to oursmart an encounter for a lesser/meAningless reward.


In what way does ignore the mechanics and hit it till it dies like it does in lfr become "out smarting" the encounter?

I notice your min/maxed on that toon


Not really, its gemmed for fury while in prot with an arms OS?


Nope, it gemmed for 5 man runs, where nothing matters thanks to years of player quality decline, away from the days of Vanilla and BC, and have been turned into faceroll AOE fests like the LK subs cried for. It means you cannot die in a 5 man. I will equip my raid gear. You may check again in a couple minutes to see what you can ridicule.
01/30/2013 11:15 AMPosted by Shaelo
3rd Boss in MSV: 2 tanks, 5 healers, 3 dps. 2 dps are always in spirit realm with 1 healer, or 1 dps and 2 healers. Dps is low, but can be outhealed. If the group can NOT find a strategy to overcome this, then they wipe. See the beauty? Its not a guaranteed win like LFR. You still have to find a way to make your group work. There just is no line in the sand.


You don't understand the mechanics of the encounter, no wonder you want cheesy mode raiding.
My only objection to hard enrage timers, is when it simply is "woops, took to long, insta-wipe cuz boss finished charging his lasers).

Now, if it was seriously about beating the boss before he charged his lazers (i.e. Ultraxion), that is one thing. If it is simply the generic enrage, proceed to pwn....why didn't he just do that before?

Minor quibble, but I like my enrage timers (hard or soft) to have realistic (to a degree) implementation
P.S. I'm sure ppl will still wipe.
P.S.S. There are certain events in raids that you need to kill a certain mob, or else you can't beat the raid or you die. How can you solve that?
Just FYI, you should type "P.P.S."

PS means "Post Script" so you said "Post Script Script" when you meant "Post Post Script."

As for topic, our guild is banging our collective head against Tsulong. The challenge of the fight is the enrage timer.
Makes raids easier. That's what you're saying. Hard enrage timers exist as a difficult mechanic. It's a rule like any other game; kill the boss in 6 minutes or you lose. Be the first one to get rid of all your cards in Go Fish or you lose.

Also, if hard enrages are stopping your progress, it's a sign that anything past that would likely wipe you. A hard enrage on Ultraxion (when it was current) for example means that if you can't kill him fast enough, you're not going to be able to stop Deathwing's "final cataclysm" mechanic. A hard enrage on Patchwerk (again, when current) means (at the very least) trouble on KT because so much can go wrong so fast, so he needs to die as fast as you can get him down.
01/30/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Kewngpow
3rd Boss in MSV: 2 tanks, 5 healers, 3 dps. 2 dps are always in spirit realm with 1 healer, or 1 dps and 2 healers. Dps is low, but can be outhealed. If the group can NOT find a strategy to overcome this, then they wipe. See the beauty? Its not a guaranteed win like LFR. You still have to find a way to make your group work. There just is no line in the sand.


You don't understand the mechanics of the encounter, no wonder you want cheesy mode raiding.


When a totem spawns, 2 dps and 1 healer enter the spirit realm. You have 30 seconds to heal each player to full to activate a special action button. Many addons will interfere with this button. Another addon called MoveAnything can help solve this problem. Players must hit that button before time runs out (DBM gives the countdown) or they insta-die. Tanks priority is to mitigate the shadowy attacks. When banished, they must kill the Severer of Souls. Healing DPS while in the spirit realm increase their damage done. This cycle continues until sub 35% when I annouce in vent no more totems. Once all members have exited the spirit realm and can benefit from Time Warp, we pop lust and burn the boss down. We have farmed it for many weeks, and I fully understand all the mehcnaics to the normal mode encounter. TY tho.

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