Shadow Orb Generation Out of Combat Part III

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I have returned to the priest forums from the PTR forums. I am here to provide additional feedback to Blizzard and the shadow priest community detailing why the shadow orb generation out of combat implementation needs to be taken seriously.

What kind of taste does the spriest community have in thier mouth after seeing those latest spriest nerfs?

Here are the links to the original threads. (Deleted by Blizzard)

I have done my best to provide this thread with all of the relevant material from the original threads. I have also placed the relevant material into a logical "train of thought" that is easy to follow, This took many hours of in depth analysis and I am sorry if I missed something.

Provided below is the single most viable implementation of the shadow orb generation out of combat idea.

Hymn of Ill Omen : Consume nearby shadows, gaining one shadow orb every ? sec for ? sec. Can only be used outside of combat.

It has been confirmed that affliction warlocks have a soul shard generation out of combat implementation

Soul Harvest: You and your demon absorb nearby wandering souls, regenerating 2% health every second while out of combat. This effect is disabled in arenas

There was a breakthrough on developing a formula for passive shadow orb generation out of combat.

Alright, so I did an experiment using your example as a model. Thank you Pocketheal.

1. I took off all my gear.
2. I decided to use a 1/3 ratio because we have 3 orbs and our mana is capped at 300k
3. I exhausted my mana as low as I possibly could. (couldn't get all of it)
4. I used the stopwatch Blizzard had built into the interface to record time.
5. I timed how long it took for the system to regenerate 100k mana on its own.
6. I added a second to the overall time to make up for the mana I couldn't exhaust.
7. I added a second to the overall time to make up for any human error present managing the clock.

The result of the experiment was 1:18 roughly. Its not as bad as I had thought it would be.

So if passive shadow orb generation out of combat was implemented under this model, it would take near one minute and 20 seconds to generate one orb and near four minutes to generate maximum orbs outside of combat. Please try to dupicate this experiment on your own time. You will find the numbers to be accurate.
Feedback Loop # 1
Specialization Stability Feedback
Thread 1

Dreamskull #8
Having shadow orbs active before we start a fight with the enemy ensures we don't get locked down by them. Most shadow priests today are aware of this strategy and avoid getting into combat if they do not have any shadow orbs to use.

We need a method to obtain shadow orbs outside of combat, Regardless of the method, We should always have max shadow orbs at the start of every fight we get into! I think both PvE and PvP shadow priests would agree that the above statement is top priority for our spec.

Consite #11
It certainly not the top priority for PvE, no. It's one extra Devouring Plague over the course of an entire fight.

Alucena #13 & 22
Its actually very strong for Shadow PvE the ability to start a fight with 3 orbs. At the start of the fight, almost, if not all your procs as well as your prepot are up so that first 20 seconds of the fight are one of the highest damage spikes so having a DP available in that span is quite a benefit.

Without any buffs, just from procs and a pot my DP does ~300k damage for its cast, compare that to a mind flay under the same benefits which for me is around 70k damage or a 230k damage increase for that GCD.

I brought it up on MMO-C a suggestion that it simply be like Astral Communion (I believe that is the name of the spell) that Balance has where after 9 seconds of channelling we would get 3 orbs, or 1 every 3 seconds.

Yellowman #31
They gave balance druids an ability similar to this, so I guess the same mechanics can work here as well.

Mytosis #64
They gave druids an ability similar to what we are suggesting. And seeing as blizzard thinks all classes should have the same structure for abilities (see homogenization in cata >_>), it would only make sense that we would. :/

Consite #18
Let's say you do 20 million damage in total during one boss fight. For one extra Devouring Plague to increase your total damage by, say, 2%, it would have to do 400k damage in total. With procs and a potion and everything, do you do 400k damage in total with just one Devouring Plague? Do you think that a 2% damage increase is significant?

Dreamskull #12 and 91
Doesn't shadow priest single target dps suck in PvE? Wouldn't this help with that? This change to the resource mechanic would be mutually beneficial for all aspects of shadow priest gameplay. Both PvP and PvE aspects of the game would b slightly improved. Best of all, niether aspect would not become overpowered because of this particular implementation. So where is this stinky fuss coming from?

Whiile I do not think the shadow orb generation out of combat implementation is going to solve all of our PvE facemelting issues, I think it is a step in the right direction because it will make that aspect of gameplay more dynamic in terms of our own quality of life.

Even if it is possible to kill something in conjuntion with our orbs, we will hold off using them due to the fact that we run the risk of doing considerably less DPS than we ought to during the next pull. We often handicap our own DPS near the end of the encounter because we don't want to deal with the ramp up time associated with Devouring Plague during the next encounter.

Being able to cast Devouring Plague at the start of the pull completely removes this 26.5-29.25 sec ramp up time associated with the live implementation of Devouring Plague. You will eventually discover that efficientcy is key and that it is often factored into our overall DPS.

Overall, this implementation kills two birds with one stone.

Jaosix #53
Yes, a hymn of dark regeneration will solve all of our problems! lolohwait.

Dreamskull #57
The contrarian nay-sayer is here! I knew I would see him eventually.Regardless of how great our arguements are or how flawless our logic is proven, he will not contrbute to our discusiion. He is a lurker on the forums that only seeks is to remind us how imaculate everything is and will be in the future. In his opinion, nothing about the shadow specialization is in need of revision or improvement. If anyone has an idea, watch out for Jaosix because he will certainly oppose it.

Jaosix #81
You realize we have 0 problems in PvP, and only about 1 problem in PvE (that being our single target dps is low compared to most specs) right? So explain why this "shadow orbs out of combat" idea would be a huge improvement to our single target dps? You can already just get 3 orbs on mobs before the bosses or even kill critters. It isn't that hard.
Like I said, it isn't needed. I'm not against it at all. I've just been trying to say that blizzard most likely will not implement it..because it isn't needed.I
nstead of immediately getting so defensive when someone even barely opposes your idea, maybe you should actually listen to them. I listened to your idea. I told you my opinions of it. No need to get butt hurt

Dreamskull #82
I am getting tired of people asking me to argue with them when the arguements they bring up have been laid out, explained in detail and assuredly resolved in earlier posts made on the same thread. It is ultimately a counter-productive loop because I have a nigling feeling in the back of my head that any arguement made will once again be ignored down the road when it is convienent to forget that it even existed in the first place.

Jaosix, you don't even read all of the posts made within the threads you lurk within. I can tell because you completely overlook the snippets of details found within the smaller posts you don't care about. I have watched you for some time now and it is as if you only scan the forums for posts that are sizably lengthy, like a shark that swims the ocean looking for blood in the water. You operate by making blanket statements that are effortllessly condescending as if your word will automatically negate the entire work and effort of those who made the posts you have targeted.


I bet you like the taste of my blood, don't you? You keep coming back for more.

Jaosix #83
Well repeating bad points again over and over would probably be a bad idea. Good call

Dreamskull #84
Since the other shadow priests seem to be missing in action, it looks like I have to feed this troll and his counter-productive loop. Thanks a lot guys.The show must go on, could you please point to one?

Jaosix #85

I think both PvE and PvP shadow priests would agree that the above statement is top priority for our spec.

This point you made that "shadow orb generation out of combat" should be the top priority for the spec is a bad point. It's not even needed, and no where near what should be the top priority of our spec.

I guess anyone that doesn't agree with your idea is a troll and isn't being productive? But anyone that agrees, you rejoice and thank them over and over again. It's kind of pathetic, really.I'm done posting on this thread though. Cya

Dreamskull #86
I would like to see some kind of reasoning placed behind this statement Jaosix.

We need rational feedback behind our ideas before they can be considered justified

The above statement was taken from an earlier post I had made in the same thread.

It has been placed here so everyone can see I am not engaging you with a defensive mechanism nor am I trying to single you out for ridicule. If you want to have a real disscusion on the issue, let's have one right now. Please provide the rationale for thinking the shadow orb resource mechanic is not a top priority for all aspects of facemelting.

Consite #93
You requested some kind of reasoning behind the statement that Shadow Orb generation out of combat shouldn't be the top priority for our spec given that the problem to be fixed is our low single-target DPS. The link is to a post that shows that giving us three Orbs at the start of every fight would increase our total DPS by maybe possibly 2% (and in reality it would be less than that). I think it's safe to assume that Jaosix thinks that our single-target DPS is more than 2% lower than it should be, and as such it's reasonable to say that the top priority buff to our spec should be one that increases our DPS by more than 2%.

Dreamskull #95
Those numbers are not backed up by evidence, but let's just say they are completely factual.

Are you telling me that you would reject this implementation on the grounds that its not awesome enough? The PvP aspect of facemelting limits your options down to a minimum of viable implementations and I personally find it distubing that you would reject one of them purely because you think its beneath you.

Are you sure you want to be this picky?

Consite #96
No. I'm telling you that, given that giving us a way to generate Shadow Orbs out of combat would increase our DPS by 2% or less, and given that our biggest issue is that our single-target DPS is significantly lower than it should be, I disagree with the notion that giving us a way to generate Shadow Orbs out of combat is the single most important thing that can be done for us.

Dreamskull #95 &97
Nothing better is going to come along. I can guarentee you that. Mark my words.

Thread 2

Dreamskull #27
I am here to say that the shadow orb generation out of combat idea is the best idea we have.

Disagree? PROVE IT with viable feedback and evidence!

Don't you dare ignore the feedback at the top of this thread and post the same "dead horse" problems that we've already covered in the original thread. I refuse to be there to regurgitate back those "dead horse" solutions as if you were a baby bird. It is unproductive and annoying! You are not a baby bird and you ought to act as if you were a productive member of this community.

Don't you dare quibble with the purpose of this thread and try to shoe-horn in your own ideas and implementations. Busting into a thread and de-railing it with half baked ideas a toddler would be ashamed of is not only unproductive, it proves to the community that you are lazy and don't really care about providing viable information that can be used to better the specialization.

If you have an original idea, go make your own thread instead of leeching off mine like a !@#$%^- parasite.

If you decide to respond to this post, I'd like to know. Are you are feeling guilty right now or are you are feeling obnoxiously stupid? Either way, I am not impressed.

Tynx #30
it is the best idea you have. also, shifting the burden of proof is a logical fallacy. someone shouldn't have to prove your idea is good or bad. that is your job.

Dreamskull #31
Holy !@#$ you're right! I don't have a mountain of feedback at the top of this thread that could be used to back up my claim! You've totally just made me look like a pathetic, dumbass troll who's only out for attention!

Tynx #32
I think it would go a long way if you included why exactly spriests need this mechanic. your OP in this thread (and the linked thread) doesn't clearly state a problem, and why your idea would be a solution.

from my understanding spriests do middle of the pack dps in pve, with some real issues with doing damage on the move.

in pvp spriests are borderline OP. with great utility and damage. not to mention the few tweets GC has thrown out saying they are keeping an eye on spriests in pvp.

ooc shadow orb generation does nothing for dps while moving, and would only make spriests stronger in pvp.

if i am missing some huge problem that spriests are having. feel free to clue me in. or just flame me, w/e floats your boat.

Dreamskull #36
Alright, since you put me under fire...

(BTW... I hit the 404 cannot be found error and had to write this bad boy twice when my first copy was lost! Don't you just hate that?)

I do not think we would become overpowered in PvP with this implementation, but Blizzard may disagree. Even if it were true that we would become overpowered with this implementation, it should still be implemented because it benefits all aspects of facemelting. I would gladly trade some of my utility or damage for consistancy regarding our resource mechanic because its implementation would ultimately be healthy for the specialization's future.

Our playstyle changes heavily depending on how many orbs we have at the start of a fight. The paradigm between balancing PvP and PvE is affected because Blizzard cannot obtain reliable numbers to arbitrate decisions with. It is never a good sign that Blizzard is "watching out" for anomolous outcomes. They should already know. This implementation would make it baseline for all shadow priests to have max orbs at the start of any fight and would help Blizzard to quit fidgeting around and make up thier damned minds about us.

If nerfs came, we would still stand tall because we wouldn't have to hesitate about our orbs in combat putting us into vulnerable positions out of combat That is key. Efficiantcy will more than likely fill in the holes inherent within the current implementation of shadow orbs. Need I remind the community that every shadow priest out there ought to always do thier best to start each fight with maximum orbs in thier pocket. Since we do not have this implementation, it is easier said than done.

I would advise Blizzard to reflect on and consider the fact that many people of the shadow priest community decry the shadow orb resource mechanic purely on the grounds that it doesn't quite fit in as nicely as they would like it to. The shadow orb resource mechanic is a carbon copy of the Holy Power resource mechanic, and I would like to remind everyone here that we are fundamentally different than any paladin specialization. Please forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

Just because the shadow orb resource mechanic doesn't fit the bill as nicely as we would like it to, that doesn't mean we cannot begin to improve or enhance its design. I can guarentee that many of the threads on the forums would disapear over night simply by having this one implementation heard. I do not foolishly think it would stop the whiners, but I do hold to the belief that the specialization would indeed be perfected for a time.

It is all linked together and because this specialization is so well designed this expansion, it would lead to more fluid common sense design implementations down the road if they were ever needed. Having this one implementation would give us our specialization much needed stability and could revolutionize the perception of the shadow orb resource mechanic for the better. Maybe then Blizzard wouldn't feel inclined to chuck everything out the window but the kitchen sink when they get sick of dealing with us on the forums.

Let me devise a scenario here, lets say Blizzard decided to put us through a specialization redesign because we convinced them the shadow orb resource mechanic was pure garbage. It would take months of effort to get on top of all the new numbers, glitches and itemizations before we knew exactly where we stood. With this expansion putting us in such a good position overall, do you guys think we would be better off than we are now if everything was redesigned?

The correct answer is no one knows for certain how things would turn out. But, in all likelyhood we would be sitting here a few years from now complaining about an entirely new set of problems because we didn't have the foresight to see this coming. But what if it IS worse? What if we completely suck and this patch wsa a golden age we took for granted? Are we gonna be old timers looking back at this patch with rose-tinted glasses? Shouldn't we act now to try to solidify what we have?

Cause right now, the shadow orb resource mechanic is the only thing holding us together.

Last time I checked it was open season on the priest forums to have shadow orbs removed.[

In short...

This implementation would revolutionize the concept of shadow orbs and would ultimately help protect us against a specialization redesign. With this implementation, Blizzard would have less anomolous outcomes that impede class balance. This could free up time and give them a solid direction to persue other implementations to use in the future to fix the specialization if it was ever endangered. This implementation benefits all aspects of facemelting now and it sure beats the hell out of Shadow Apparitions

I have given five GOOD reasons why this needs to be implemented.

Anyone else still think its not the best option?

Haely #53
That it's not needed anymore.

Ever though that maybe why you don't get as much support is because most Priest don't think we need an out of combat generation of Orbs?

We've been doing quite fine without it it seems and until I saw this post I never heard of any Priest complaining about not having something like this.

Not trying to be mean or anything like that just stating my opinion I guess.

Dreamskull #54
Not much of an Ambassador are you? That is such a blanket statement I can't even take it seriously.

Quit pretending and come up with something better if you feel inclined. You will soon discover how valuable your judgement skills really are. Whatever you do, do not resort to pandering to resolve your panic attacks.

There is no room for cute behavior here. Be a Gnome and hit me with logic.

Be progressive, I dare you.

Haely #55
I don't claim to be super good in PvP or even do PvE and I also don't have dozens of logs or anything evidence wise of why we don't need this.

I already said before that this would be a nice change to have but it's unlikely to happen.

You also have already been told that your post doesn't quite contain any facts or reasoning as to why we need this, you are more or less suggesting that everyone else come up with some idea how to implement this and why we need it when it's your job as the OP to provide the facts for this cause.

I'm basing everything I say on my own experience and I don't see this as being some major that needs to be focused on. If Blizzard saw this post and thought "Hey that's a good idea" then that's awesome and could potentially help our class overall. But in the overall picture I rather try and get some AoE focus since we are pretty lacking when it comes to AoE fighting.

Every time someone opposes this idea you come out and attack them, just like you did with me. I provided an idea to your problem in this post already, it was ignore and probably because it wasn't the greatest but still a suggestion.

I probably won't come back to this thread again.

Edit: Not a very articulate person and have trouble putting my thoughts down so post is a little crappy.

Dreamskull #56
The fact that you ingored #36 is insulting! Can't you read?

You have failed to live up to my expectations. Not only did you disregard an entire post, you failed to present any rationale to back up your arguement. Your entire post is fallacious and that is absolutely unacceptable!

The only thing you have succeded at is wasting my precious time!

You seem to blatently ignore the wrtten word of others. I hope you can at least pay heed to your own.

I probably won't come back to this thread again.

It may be for the best if you are unable to keep yourself informed of basic thread dialogue.

Dreamskull #57
Who, what, where, when, why and how are basic tenets of healthy thread dialouge in case you didn't know. Don't even try to pass opinion off in this thread if you dont have justification for it outlined in detail. It is a mother!@#$ing peice of %^-* waste of time otherwise!

No wonder Blizzard ignores 95 percent of all threads on the forums. Almost none of them carry with them any substance that leaves them with any indication on what is what! I don't blame them for the playerbase's lack of acknowledgement and attention to detail. I feel bad for the poor soul that has to go dumpster diving on the forums every day.

Straighten up and fly right if you want your threads to be noticed and taken seriously!

Don't even think about bringing mine down cause you don't know how to compile your thoughts properly!
Feedback Loop # 2
Active Ability Generation Feedback
Thread 1

Xenthia #27
personally I don't really like shadow orbs, they feel out of place to me. I personally would like to see a passive shadow orb generation (out of combat) maybe one every 20-30 secs. definitely not from our channeled ability that would be taking a step back to cataclysm.

but imo there are just at this point blizzard trying to be different for the sake of different. they are used on one pve ability Devouring Plague & in pvp we have to choose between DP or a disarm so either damage/heal or surviving the warrior.

I think they either need to go or have more done with them

edit I think disarm and Devouring Plague should be put on a cooldown and orbs removed because the mix of "burst" and sustained damage is proving quite strong in pvp at the moment... giving us more orbs would not work we would leave the realms of strong and enter the realms of Overpowered

Dreamskull #28
If anyone actually hates the shadow orb resource mechanic as much as they say they do, I would advise them to wait for the last patch of he expansion. I for one do not want to waste away the remainder of MoP on my hands and knees groveling for buffs because a few people wanted to see the shadow orb resource mechanic torn down.

People need to quit trying to decry the shadow orb resource mechanic this early in the expansion because it is the only thing holding us up against severe nerfs and harsh redesigns. Consequence is more than just a word and I doubt there is a single person alive that knows exactly how much more consequence is needed before I tell the priest community I told them so.

Xenthia #30
I'm sorry... at what point did I say I hate them? all I said was that I dont particuly like them. I feel like they should be more than an indirect cooldown on devouring plague or gone. it seems silly to me to have a resource system in place to add a cooldown to one ability

Dreamskull #33
Yes, it DOES seem silly to have a resource mechanic implemented in order to balance a specialization.

Semirhage #35
I vote for complete removal and a total rehaul. I heard that our secondary resource was very similar to pallies in cata (unsure if true), and they all said it was a bad, bad system. So why give them something else and us what they had?

As for a way to generate them. Perhaps, seeing that Mb is on an 8 second cooldown, while in shadow form allow us to generate one every 8 seconds. Would def save my butt in pvp when stopped casting MB

Dreamskull #36
I am not looking for whining nor am I looking for shadow orb generation in combat. That is not what this thread was made for to discuss and I highly doubt your contradiction of its purpose was made to be taken seriously.

Semirhage #37
I'm not whining, I just think it is not a very good system. This was proven with paladin's. Who said generating an orb every 8 seconds cannot be used 'outside' of combat?

And no need to be nasty. There are too many people like that on the forums as is.

Dreamskull #38
People will whine about anything and everything. Just because someone whined somewhere about something does not mean that thier whining is automatically justified. You THINK paladins were whining about thier holy power resource mechanic in Cataclysm? Do you even know which specializations were doing the whining? Have you even played the Paladin class?

Of course not, because you are falsely justiifing yourself by grasping flimsy evidence to denounce the shadow orb resource mechanics we have now. Let's just say that you are correct, and that the paladins were justified with thier complaints on thier holy power resource mechanic. Why in the world would Blizzard even think to give us a similar system if the first implementation didn't work?

The shadow orb system and the holy power system will definetly work out differently because if I remember correctly, paladins are a plate-wearing class that has one healing specialization and two specializations built around melee combat. One for tanking and the other for damage dealing. Shadow priests are a cloth-wearing, damage dealing specialization built around ranged combat.

Are you telling me that because the paladin community had a bad experience with thier version of the resource mechanic, the shadow priest community will as well? Are you willing to defend that position knowing full well that shadow priests are fundamentally different than any paladin specialization; which by the way, all have a completely different listing of talents, abilities and glyphs?


I am not trying to be nasty, I am trying to be productive.

Semirhage #39
Ok first off, telling me to GTFO is not productive and is certainly not very nice.

Yes, very true. These forums seem to overflow with whingeing and whining when people do not understand how their class or how other classes work.
If you read what I had said, you would see that I was looking for clarification hence the brackets. I had never stated this as fact. I used the words 'heard' and '(unsure if true)' A few shadow priests who had played paladins back in cata did point out the similarities on the priest forums and I had read a few posts back in cata on the paladin forums.

I wanted more input, to my input. That is what the forums and discussion are for.

Perhaps it very well could, perhaps not. You are making assumptions based upon my reply.

From my personal experience, yes, I think the system should be changed. While yes, we are strong in pvp, smart teams/players can keep you locked out of generating orbs. For example, if a warrior is on you, it can take a very long time to generate orbs and by then you generally are in serious trouble. We only have one way of generating them, sw:d aside, and that is pretty poor.

I think you have the wrong idea from perhaps my first sentence? It does seem a tad harsh reading back through it now but, I assure that was not my intention. I only ever look to put in helpful information and discussions on the wow forums.

I did state that an orb generation every 8 seconds could be a viable way of generating shadow orbs out of combat so, instead of snapping my head off you could of ignored the first half, or said 'hey, thats not right, this is how it was'.

We're all here to discuss, throw suggestions back and forth and yes, correct people in a NICE manner if needed.

Dreamskull #42
I love how you just glanced over the entire post I made and ignored the substance therewithin as if it was hidden from you.

Read it again.

In fact, read the entire thread again.

You may have noticed that you have derailed the thread trying to defend your position and your own emotional well-being. You have taken it upon youself to detract from the original purpose of this thread when there was productive points being made to correct the issues you had listed

Can't you see that we are aware of these issues and that they have already been written about within the multitude of other threads on the priest forums? You do not have special insight when it comes to discovering problems. We all play the same spec and we all post about the same problems on the same forum!

I would like to say AGAIN that denouncing the shadow orb resource mechanic this early in the expansion is a dangerous idea because I can guarentee you that every !@#$%^- redesign comes with an obligatory bag of problems that we cannot solve quickly enough due to Blizzard's "wait and see" approach to design.

I want to establish stability for our specialization so people do not have to feel the need to dismantle the shadow orb resource mechanic. I think this is a significant enough change mechanically that it may affect the perception of the shadow orb resource mechanic for the better all the while remaining insignificant enough mathithimatically to keep our spec from becoming overpowered.

What would you guys think of the shadow orb resource mechanic if out of combat orb generation was implemented?

Semirhage #40
Here is an idea. Hymn of hope. Perhaps for shadow they could rework this spell to generate orbs and perhaps reduce the cooldown? Similar to soul harvest back in cataclysm. I am unsure if shadow priests in a pve setting have mana issues but, I think I could safely say they don't with the maintaining of VT.

In a pvp setting things can be a little different but, I generally do not have mana issues with perhaps the exception of long drawn out arena matches and needing to cast it for my healer etc.

Would anyone miss the mana regain from hymn of hope? It feels like a sort of useless spell for shadow at the moment.

Hymn of dark regeneration?

Dreamskull #43
You are finally being productive! Let's put the quarrel behind us and get back to what matters.

Choop #41
I proposed of this idea in this thread and feel like i'd be a great way to bring in ooc orb regen

In fact doing this would cause much out rage from healers as Hymn of Hope is still very much used in a PvE setting by Shadow Priests during raiding especially during progression for healers when they start to get low on mana.

Theyas #44
I agree that replacing our hymn of hope would cause potential problems for progression guilds.

If it weren't for my Hymn of Hope lastnight, my guild might not have downed Heroic Lei Shi.

Maybe give us our own spec based Hymn? Hymn of Ill Omen perhaps. Channeled spell, works exactly like Soul Harvest did last expansion.

Dreamskull #47
There was a hymn idea before even that post.

But at the very least, I think you came up with the best name for the spell.

Hymn of Ill Omen would be a badass name for a spell to have.

Theyas #48
I think the key for our hymn idea is give us an extra spec based hymn for orb generation, because realistically, Hymn of Hope is still very useful to a raiding spriest.

Maybe something decently long, like 10-15s channel so it's not ridiculously overpowered in a PvP scenario.

Honestly, I'd be okay with a 30 second channel as long as it still worked. Pre-pull buffing typically takes that long on average, anyway, if not longer.

Dreamskull #49

Choop #50
Something to tweet to Ghostcrawler ;)

Theyas #51

Thread 2

Bigscreen #90
blizz nerfed the puntable marmot because of people able to generate rage/orbs/ whatever from it. so i think blizz dosent want us to get orbs out of combat....

Dreamskull #95
How it should be...

I do believe Death knights should start with maximum runes at the start of every fight.
I do believe Rogues/monks should start with maximum energy at the start of every fight.
I do believe Druids should start with naximum lunar/solar energy at the start of every fight.
I do believe Hunters should start with maximum focus at the start of every fight.
I do believe Shadow priests should start with maximum orbs at the start of every fight.
I do believe Affliction Warlocks should start with maximum shards at the start of every fight.

I do not believe Death Knights should start with maximum runic power at the start of every fight.
I do not believe Paladins should start with maximim holy power at the start of every fight.
I do not believe Warriors should start with maximum rage at the start of every fight.
I do not believe Rogues/monks should start with maximum combos/chi at the start of every fight.
I do not believe Druids should start with maximum rage/combos at the start of every fight.
I do not believe Destro/Demo Warlocks should start with maximum embers/fury at the start of every fight.
I do not believe that Mages should start with maximum arcane charge at the start of every fight.

How it actually is.

Death Knights regenerate thier runes fairly quickly. Runes are empowered by runic power during combat.
Runic Power degenerates over time. It is impossible to naturally have it at the start of every fight.
Paladins generate holy power during combat. Holy Power is used to heal and do damage.
Paladins can have maximum Holy Power at the start of every fight but it is linked to healing abilities.
Warriors generate Rage during combat. Rage is used to use abilities and do damage.
Rage degenerates over time. It is impossible to naturally have it at the start of every fight.
Rogues regenerate thier energy fairly quickly. Energy is used to accumulate combos.
Combos are meant to be used as a finishing blow.
Monks regenerate thier energy fairly quickly. Energy is used to accumulate chi.
Chi is meant to be used as a finishing blow.
Druids confrom to rage and energy rules. Their lunar/solar energy is channeled.
Shadow Priests generate orbs during combat. Orbs are used to do damage and horrify and disarm enemies.
Shadow Priests can have maximum orbs at the start of every fight. They are not linked to healing abilities.
Affliction Warlocks generate shards during combat. Shards are used to amplify abilities.
Affliction Warlocks can have maximum shards at the start of every fight, they are not linked to healing abilities. (Further research indicates that they have a method to generate shards out of combat.)
Desto/Demo Warlocks generate embers/fury during combat. Both are used to do damage.
Embers/Fury degenerates over time. It is impossible to naturally have either at the start of every fight.
Mages generate arcane charge during combat. Arcane Charge is used to buff abilities and do damage.
Arcane Charge degenerates over time. It is impossible to naturally have it at the start of every fight.

Don't let the other claases bring us down! That is exactly what they want us to think!

It isn't impossible for a shadow priest to save up three orbs naturally, thats what we already normally do.

Dreamskull #97
Upon doing the research to compile the above list. I have discovered that shadow priests and affliction warlocks are in the same boat. Affliction Shards and Shadow Orbs are used to augment thier own specialization respectively.These augmentations are not linked to any healing abilities like the Holy Power and Burning Ember resource mechanics are.

Affliction Warlocks even have a passive soul shard generation out of combat implementation.

Soul Harvest: You and your demon absorb nearby wandering souls, regenerating 2% health every second while out of combat. This effect is disabled in arenas.

I have confirmation that Affliction Warlocks generate shards out of combat using this ability.

Why the hell is there no tooltip that provides black and white information regardling this in thier spellbook?

Cassonberry #89
This thread would be quite good, with a good idea and well presented..

.If the OP wasn't a total douche :/

Gisele #92
Not really productive. Please keep positive feedback coming.

Cassonberry #93
I said the idea was good, and well presented. That is positive feedback.

However I just don't think it will fix shadow with something as simple as this. Especially with the big change to DP.

Dreamskull #94
We cannot find an a simple implementation designed to fix everything right now. We may as well get something down that we can use to kickstart a developmental boom for 5.3. At least my implementation has room down the road to expand into further implementations. Just think of how this will affect everything and how it will inject Blizzard with inspiration to branch its original concept. I can think of a dozen further implementations right now that are spawned from this original launchpad implementation.

Need I remind you that Blizzard is about to bring thier nerfbat out on our specialization?.Our shadow orb resource mechanic needs some work before they think about nerfing us. As long as this gets implemented, I don't care how we get nerfed. However, if we don't get this implementation soon, any nerf given to the specialization will inflame us with an ability bloat problem. Ability Bloat will give Blizzard a harder time balancing us down the road if we fall upon tough times again. We all need to understand this.

It would be best to implement this now and center the upcomingthe nerfs around it.

I would prefer the specialization not to be developmentally challenged and fragile.
Feedback Loop # 3
Passive Orb Generation Feedback
Thread 1

Sohra #68
Passive: Regenerate one orb every 12 seconds while out of combat.

Why is it so hard for this to be implemented? What would be the downsides?

PVP: We will never be left alone for 12 seconds...just saying. If it's a big deal, just make the passive only work outside of Arenas and Battlegrounds.

PVE: Perfect solution so we don't stuck running after the group after channeling some lame orb regen ability. Also fixes the single target DPS problem everyone knows Spriests have. can add a cool down considering we don't have very many.

E.g. Omen of Regeneration: Instantly grants you 3 Shadow Orbs. 3 min CD. <<< Works well with Mindbender if you go that route and also doesn't make a huge difference on PVP.

Nixxe #69
Pretty sure they're capable of disabling the ability in instanced PVP environments, though not positive.

Dreamskull #72
The passive orb generation is the second most popular method to generate shadow orbs outside of combat and is a plausible suggestion. However, I have a big problem with it. How do you create a passive effect that only works outside of combat from a development standpoint? I cannot think of even one similar effect used by another class' spec. If you can provide the details for it; I would be ready to support it.

Can anyone think of something that passively generates outside of combat?

Until we can think of something, I am gonna throw my chips in with the ability implementation. It serves the same function.

Jetz #73
3 Orbs? Why not 4, 5 or 6.....seems to be the theme with everything else.

The Orb mechanic is new and I would love to see it worked on some more.

Out of Combat, 1 Orb regeneration

Full Mind Flay cast could add an Orb (Bump MF damage while your at it) Psychic Horror should be a Single Orb cast for full duration (Don't see anyone saving 3 orbs)

Bake in these extra tier set bonuses that seem to keep coming back. Extend Shadow Word Pain and Vampiric Touch by three seconds to smooth out rotations. Vampiric Touch should be painful to dispel.

Shadow Word Death, should hit hard, but twice is silly, I wouldn't mind an execute dot being left behind on the target if they didn't die from the initial damage.

Dreamskull #74
if we are serious about wanting Blizzard to implement shadow orb generation out of combat, We have to stop giving suggestions to Blizzard that encourages further implementation of shadow orb generation in combat. It is terribly counter-productive to our entire arguement.

I happen to notice that you've called for changes to be made without explaining why they are needed. We need rational feedback behind our ideas before they can be considered justified and worthy of implementation. Can you provide feedback for your ideas?

Vixie #75
Not true. It's just giving them suggestions, period. Not like we want out of combat orb regen only. That would be cutting our own throat.

Either slow passive out of combat regen (like druid rage) Plus current methodology to gain orbs OR more ways in-combat to generate orbs, proc multiple orbs with glyphs or something.

Dreamskull #76
Please bring out the knife because that's the reason this thread was created.

Thread 2

Pocketheal #80
Mana regen itself has different amounts when in combat and ooc. So there is one passive effect that has a difference between in and out of combat.It may not be the best example but it is an example.

Dreamskull #81
You are correct, but how does that help Blizzard implement passive shadow orb generation out of combat? Health and Mana digits are up in the hundreds of thousands and still regenerate very slowly. Its regeneration is so slow in fact, we eat and drink to minimize having to wait for it on its own.

Shadow orbs have a measure of three. Are you sure you want to use that comparison?

Dreamskull #82
I suppose you are right, at least it is something.

I'll look into it.

Dreamskull #83
Alright, so I did an experiment using your example as a model. Thank you Pocketheal.

1. I took off all my gear.
2. I decided to use a 1/3 ratio because we have 3 orbs and our mana is capped at 300k
3. I exhausted my mana as low as I possibly could. (couldn't get all of it)
4. I used the stopwatch Blizzard had built into the interface to record time.
5. I timed how long it took for the system to regenerate 100k mana on its own.
6. I added a second to the overall time to make up for the mana I couldn't exhaust.
7. I added a second to the overall time to make up for any human error present managing the clock.

The result of the experiment was 1:18 roughly. Its not as bad as I had thought it would be.

So if passive shadow orb generation out of combat was implemented under this model, it would take near one minute and 20 seconds to generate one orb and near four minutes to generate maximum orbs outside of combat. Please try to dupicate this experiment on your own time. You will find the numbers to be accurate.
Feedback Loop # 4
Shadow Word: Insanity Synergy Feedback
Thread 2

Mitosis #5
While obviously a way to generate 3 orbs before starting a fight would be nice, I'd settle if it was simply consistent -- even if that meant orbs degrade when sitting out of combat. As it is it feels more like a penalty when I can't begin with orbs than it does a bonus when I can.

Haely #10
I really hope they never let Orbs degenerate out of Combat.

Shadowfask #6
I wish blizz just buff the mind flay damage. This will solve our low dps output in single target fights while not have much influence on PVP.

Haely #10
This would be a great idea.

Also not sure how it would work but what about if your first cast of Mind Blast would generate 3 orbs? While in combat this couldn't happen again of course. Could be a little overpowered with PvP though I could see.

Dreamskull #14
Come on guys, give me something I can work with here!

Where are all the intelligent people when you need them?

Haely #15
I offered something but you completely ignored it.

In my personal opinion I don't see this as much of a problem, does it suck? Yea it does but not every class has to start out super strong with their biggest hitter. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to start out with DP just don't see it as a huge problem when there are other issues that need addressed first.
Also not sure how it would work but what about if your first cast of Mind Blast would generate 3 orbs? While in combat this couldn't happen again of course. Could be a little overpowered with PvP though I could see.

This was my suggestion to this thread.

Cerberús #16
It's not that simple. Buffing MF may bring it's DPET value higher than a FDCL proc, which would make Mindbender the only viable talent of that tier. You could buff FDCL proc damage, but they would have to buff Mindbender as well.

As far as the Orb generation situation goes, I'm fine with a passive out of combat Orb generation. Having CD's to do it really makes things more complicated, especially the quote above stating having a 3min CD to give 3 orbs...since that would change nothing and you'd still want to have 3 orbs pre pull, blow DP, and THEN use the CD for optimal DPS.

As far as my concerns on Spriest going forward:

We need better single target DPS and SW:I needs to be completely revamped to make it anything less than useless.

One issue is that Warlocks, Mages, and Moonkins have 20%+ better scaling coefficients on Intellect and at least two secondaries than Shadow does. We're just going to fall farther and farther behind as everyone gets more geared.

Ideas to improve DPS:
-Make it possible cast MF on the move(doesn't necessarily directly buff single target DPS, but our DPS certainly suffers significantly on the move if we don't get procs).
-Have MB scale with haste again.
-Buff lvl 90 talents.
-I'd hate to say it, but giving us powerful set bonuses would be an easy way of increasing our DPS without having much impact on the PvP side of things(which T15 are not). This is more of a band-aid fix more than anything though.

I'd love to have a DPS CD, but I can't help but think Blizz won't go that route in fear of buffing our burst in PvP.

I don't have a good idea for SW:I at the moment, it's something I'll have to put more thought into before I start making suggestions on that.

Haely #21
I didn't mean it as a solution just I believe buffing MF Damage to some degree would be a very nice change.

I don't think we need more ways but I do wish disarm was off the Orb system or reworked some.

Have it have a straight forward duration but it only cost 1 Orb total, instead of possibly using all 3 if you have a Melee on you and then all your Orbs are gone to use DP.

Reckyo #17
Making Sw:I not suck and be on par with the other talents will help and im sure a change to it is coming.

I think buffing power infusion either by adding to it or changing it a little bit could help to improve our st dps. twist of fate is the go to talent on any fight where we can proc it off adds and DI is the go to talent for council type fights/multi dotting so i think changing pi could be a start to fixing st dps issues.

Scaling is an issue still,Mind blast CD scaling with haste is very popular idea that i like very much, i mean we wont be getting anymore of our big finishers off in the last tier then we do right now and that seems wrong.

One other thing is we could really use a slight vt boost in damage as well and i dont think that would break pvp seeing as we are looking at getting a nerf because of the pvp power healing buff we just got.

PS:fix apparitions make them move faster and add a glyph to change the way they look.

Xocoatl #39
Solace and Insanity (New) Discipline, Holy: You gain the Power Word: Solace ability. Strike an enemy with the power of the heavens, dealing [ 1,136 + 111% of Spell Power ] Holy damage and an additional [ 7 + 3.12% of Spell Power ] Holy damage over 7 sec and restoring 1% of maximum mana. Replaces Holy Fire. Shadow: When cast on a target that has three of your Shadow damage-over-time spells applied, your Mind Flay gains the insanity effect. Assault the target's mind with Shadow energy, causing 6,294 Shadow damage over 3 sec and slowing their movement speed by 50%. Priest - LvL 45 Talent.

So basically it's a 100% dmg buff on Mindflay whenever you cast SaI (Solace and Insanity)

DLing the new build as I speak to try it out. Seems interesting

Dreamskull #40
Do you think that the duration of Devouring Plague is enough to warrent a solid DPS increase using Mind Flay during its duration? If so, do you think it could rival the damage output and synergy of From Darkness Comes Light and Devine Insight? Even if this new implementation were to snynergize well with Twist of Fate or Power Infusion, I do not think it could be considered a wrecking ball compared to what we already have.

This implementation forces shadow priests to minimalize the usage of Mind Spike and maximize the usage of Mind Flay. If a shadow priest were to take this ability over From Darkness Comes Light and replace the glyph of Mind Spike with the glyph of Mind Flay, it could become slightly more interesting. It would become more intersting if you became a fan of the Mind Flay glyph while running implementation. Good thoughts eh?

I am still not taking that over what I have already, but I might decide to keep it as an off-spec amenity.

I see it as an alternative talent, not an end all be all game changeing implementation.

Xocoatl #41
I have no idea if the new SW:I will be superior to FDCL or Mindbender.

Need some math to check it out

I'm pretty impatient to test out t15 bonuses too.

Only time (and math) will tell

Snaxattax #43
for PVE, i don't care about PVP.

shadow still doesn't have a single target dps cooldown, and has one of the lowest bloodlust dps phases of every class in the game. we even do less than prot paladins. SW:I i guess is supposed to fill this void, but if it's not going to have any impact on shadoworb generation i'd be surprised if it ended up being more useful than mindbender (you'd still want to break a buffed mindflay for a DI proc) or if they buff PI to make it better for single target than DI.

our execute rotation is clunky and dumb. we should get orbs for both SWDeaths instead of having to either delay orb generation or using 2 orb DPs.

Xocoatl #45
Currently on the PTR, you can cast instant spells while channeling MFI

Same style as soothing mist if you've ever played a mistweaver monk

So, no need to clip your MFI for the DI proc or to refresh SW:P.

I hope this is intended, I see my dps getting competitive now finally

Xocoatl #46
They currently now removed the casting of instants while channeling SW:I.

A real and legendary let down

Haely #47
That stupid, I saw your post while I was at work and got really excited because that something that could really help us.

Dreamskull #48
Trust No One

Kidmagic #59
I dont really think a shadow orb generation is our problem. I think maybe we might need a cooldown like Acendence, the demonform that warlocks get, Recklessness a warrior gets or something else that might raise damage for a short period of time and could possible start us out with 3 shadow orbs. I thinks they need to keep the ability to cast instants while channeling MF or atleast give us the ability to cast and move. And on the ptr our shadowy apparitions arnt doing damage if you are further than 10ft away from the target.

Cerberús #64
They won't give us a CD because A) We have Power Infusion(though it isn't great), and B) they changed DP to reduce our burst in PvP, giving us a CD would be a step backwards in what they are trying to do.

With the new SW:I, I can almost promise you that we won't get any type of movement DPS buff. Casting instants while channeling SW:I was stupid OP, even now SW:I is still very strong, which means I highly doubt they'll let us cast MF on the move. So far, I'm happy about the new SW:I. Gives us a strong, single target patchwerk talent.

Passive orb generation would still be nice. Anyone who raids(hell, even runs dungeons) knows the DPS difference from starting with 3 orbs and starting with none. You get off a DP off the bat and by the time you get your next DP you'll have both trinkets and your pot still active.

Dreamskull #60
The shadow orb generation out of combat implementation would allow us to get max orbs in our pocket before the start of each fight. Having these shadow orbs at the start of each fight would ensure that we start our rotation strong with Devoruing Plague. In addition to Devouring Plague, if we decided to pick up the new and improved Shadow Word: Insanity, we would gain access to our new active effect and deal double damage with our Mind Flay. I believe that this is very similar to the idea you personally recommend.

I am glad they came out with a new and improved version of Shadow Word: Insanity. It gives the shadow orb generation out of combat implementation a more satisfying bite to it for the shadow priest PvE community.

Don't you think so?

It would seem as though Shadow Word: Insanity was made for PvE shadow priests.

PvP shadow priests like myself would still prefer the From Darkness Comes Light talent.

Kidmagic #61
Yeah I can see how that would be pretty nice. Im kinda torn between a passive generation and the channel thing. Im more of a visual person so if they add a cool looking visual to the channel thing I wouldnt mind that at all. I also wish they would change the visual of Apparitions. Its ok having shadows of your self slowly walking over there. But they adding a golden aparition and I kinda like how that works more than the shadow ones. They can have the shadow ones look a shadowy raven or skull or something else sinsiter fly over too the enemy. I just really dont like the walking affect of apparitions.
I believe I have made a solid case for this implementation.

It took a lot of work, but it was worth every hour.
What do you think?

Will the spriest community finally accept my work?
Really happy how you are continuing and putting this much effort in trying to get this implemented into the game.

Although have you seen the 5.2 PTR notes lately? Doesn't seem like GC wants anything to do with us. /sadface
Really happy how you are continuing and putting this much effort in trying to get this implemented into the game.

Although have you seen the 5.2 PTR notes lately? Doesn't seem like GC wants anything to do with us. /sadface

Its a matter of balance. Buffs and nerfs are always inevitable.

However, the nerfs made to the specialization on the PTR are ground-breakingly crushing. We gain very little and lose too much. I hate to say I told you so; but if this implementation was factored in before those nerfs were forced upon the specialization, I believe the design of nerfs would have been much more fair and fluid.

My work is done and the case has been made.

Is there anyone in the shadow priest community still convinved we don't need this?

There is still time left before this patch goes live. Let the discussion begin.
Because of the recent nerfs made to the specialization on the PTR, I feel the need to also open this thread up to a discussion regarding any and all possible opinions regarding the nerfs. Do not be afraid to voice your concern! I will not hinder the dicussion for the sake of the implementation.

Let opinion flow freely!
To me, perhaps they are opening up the possibility of Mindspike not canceling dots. Then it would make sense to remove the glyph. It would be a huge help to Shadow and not unbalance PvE.

But they didn't say this. The nerfs seem entirely senseless. They've removed *ALL* of a Shadowpriest's burst. Phantasm not only cripples Shadow, it cripples Disc and Holy, and they were already struggling.

I generally don't do Chicken little. But with these patch notes, it's well justified. PvP as a Priest, in any spec, is over.
I generally don't do Chicken little. But with these patch notes, it's well justified. PvP as a Priest, in any spec, is over.

I am inclined to agree with that statement if these changes go live. It will become a grim reality.
If MS doesn't remove dots, then they might as well delete MF. Except a channeled filler is superior to a casted filler and you shouldn't want them to make MS our filler.
This is totally ridiculous. Our healing outside of voidshift isn't game breaking. It's not any more op than warriors/hunters/dks/rogues/monks (4 of which don't even have a healing spec).

The Devouring Plague nerf is 100% uncalled for. So every 10-20 seconds I can hit someone for 40-80k damage, if I'm lucky. IF I don't need to use Pyschic Horror. That's NOTHING compared to what warlocks and mages can put out just to name a couple classes. Minimally they need to take psychic horror off the orb system and make VT instant cast. I'd almost be willing to trade that for this lame excuse for "balancing."

The Dispersion nerf is completely insane. Do Paladin bubbles get locked out? Does a mage's Ice Block get locked out? It's not even possible to lock out Deterrence, and that's on a 1 minute CD and can be used back to back with Readiness. Now all they have to do is lock us out and we are dead, NOTHING we can do. So we spend our entire time juking interrupts? So basically going against double melee teams we should just /quit, right?

Compare Phantasm to the Mage's Blazing Speed. We get snare/root immunity for 5 seconds on a 30 second cd, they get snare/root/stun immunity on a 15 second cd with a speed boost.

Our utility was ok, it wasn't the best in the game. Our off healing was ok, the only nerf that was "arguably" needed was removing void shift from arenas. But they didn't even do that. For us to use flash heal we have to leave shadow form (which increases damage taken) and completely stop damaging. Isn't that balanced enough? It's not passive like a lot of other classes have. Now, especially with the 30% battle fatigue, it's not even going to be worth having on my binds. 1.2 seconds of casting out of shadow form to heal for what? 25k health? Just take the spell out of the shadow spell kit completely.

What pisses me off the most about this is Ghostcrawler's tweet that priest utility needed nerfs. He didn't even say they need balancing. His exact words were, iirc, "can we get some nerfs to shadow priest utility already?" How unprofessional is that? Is WoW only in existence so that Ghostcrawler can play his mage? He should at least pretend to be neutral, but that is just blatantly biased. As a game developer does he not care about the final product that he puts time into? I never thought I'd abhor someone more than Nancy Pelosi, but he's really giving her a run for her money.
no mobility
no survivel
no dps
we are only suport class, ridiculs

rogues acumulate 5comb points with more easyl and fast that a shadow priest to gerenate 3 orbs, and we with no orbs = the mediocre dps

nerf heal, lol renew regen 7k for stick and rejuvenation of druid balance regen 21k is 3x more and ghostclawler nerf the spriest, lol

why the blizzard change not shadow priest to be a melee class, because we mobility is fail/sarcasm

only have fear like kittable skill, and many class remove fear . after we have only dispersion on cd = die

sorry i am brazilian my english is poor

vote to stick this topic
I would like to see for shadowpriest, some sort of CD where you can generate 3 full shadow orbs. There could be so much potential with shadow orb, for example,
- 3 orbs is an instant cast for flash heal (doesn't break you out of shadow)
- increases bubble by per orb by 20%
- if you use orbs with fear, it applies a movement reducing effect 20% per orb after fear ends
- useing orbs, you can mindblast additional targets 1 additonal target, per orb
- use orbs to strengthen your shadowfiend dmg

there is alot of potential out there to make shadow priest a fun class. Was just brainstorming stuff.
Yep this is a blatent and rediculous slaughter of Spriest pvp, it's so hard to get to 3 orbs allready, nerfing it further is out of the question, CS's gone? reverted, what?????? mage buffs what????? re-rolling but very discuraged, gonna have to start the season behind, I feel bad for any one who loves Spriests, I can't even Imagine the Greats thoughts on this Talbadar, Zaddo, Kyrl.....GG Blizz GG
I would like to see for shadowpriest, some sort of CD where you can generate 3 full shadow orbs. There could be so much potential with shadow orb, for example, - 3 orbs is an instant cast for flash heal (doesn't break you out of shadow)- increases bubble by per orb by 20%- if you use orbs with fear, it applies a movement reducing effect 20% per orb after fear ends- useing orbs, you can mindblast additional targets 1 additonal target, per orb- use orbs to strengthen your shadowfiend dmgthere is alot of potential out there to make shadow priest a fun class. Was just brainstorming stuff.

this is a stupid idea its bad enough spending orbs to use horror let alone having to sac more damage to stay alive

been playing priest for a long time and this is the worst they have ever been especially shadow im not one for rerolling but my warlock is looking very good right now
* shadow orbs are like comb points and DP is the finishing of the shadow priest
rogue regenerates 5 combo points faster than shadow priest regenerates 3 ​​orbs, while basic to generate 3 orbs is 24sec (MB 8sec cd x3 = 24sec) and has1.5cast without orbs spriest does not cause significant dps then someone dispel it and ... all over again

* heal, renew healing 7k per tick rejuvenation of the balance druid healing gear with the same 20-21k per tick and still has several kitting druid spells and mobility

* mobility, what is it? shadow priest has no mobility and no we do not have slow spells, (we can not use MF to distance) kitting only spell we have many classes can remover, is the fear.Pisifiend is dumb, sometimes cast fear in snakes of the hunter and not who you want, and phantasm will still be nerfed lol.

*pisithic horror,Blizzard needs to remove the orb cost of this spell , choose between CC or dps is ridiculous, if I need the terror i do not cause damage. Indeed have to remove these orbs that only serves to nerfed the shadow priest

why do not you delete the class?

sorry my english is poor i am brazilian

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