Overpower Nerf and Gag Order

Warrior
All the other nerfs such as shockwave and defensive stance were needed except I was a little upset that they didnt give defensive stance a stam and armor boost like they do for blood presence for DKs. Besides that I understand all the other nerfs they were needed.
OVERPOWER:
But then for some reason they thought up to make overpower cost 10 rage? Honestly the only filler move I have between a 6 second Mortal Strike CD and a 20 second colossol smash CD. The only useful thing to do with the litte rage I get is slam because overpower doesnt even hit that hard and its almost a waste of rage and Ive had to take heroic strike off my bars completly....between leeping hamstring up and having to stance dance I might be able to get a slam or two off every 20 seconds, and 90% of the time I dont have enough rage for execute.

Warrior sustained damage between CDs wasnt that great in the first place compared to other classes like DK's. But instead of nerfing overlapping crazy damage burst from using all CDs together they decide to cut my already "okay" sustained damage in half with this over power nerf.

GAG ORDER:
Gag order on pummel was absolutley freaking ridiculous not going to lie, but it should be back on Heroic throw (Another Blizzard overkill nerf). When a mage blankets something for 4 seconds over 24 seconds it considered "pro" but Im guessing if a warrior does it My God that is freaking overkill take that !@#$ away! And with the uninteruptible casting buffs on almost every casting class and half of them like Hpallies dont even have to cast and when they do its uninteruptable for me .

All I'm saying is all the other Warrior nerfs were definatly nesscary, but blizzard really screwed up killimg my just okay sustained damage already instead of nerfing the big CDs.

Warrior sustained damage between CDs wasnt that great in the first place compared to other classes like DK's. But instead of nerfing overlapping crazy damage burst from using all CDs together they decide to cut my already "okay" sustained damage in half with this over power nerf.

Pretty much. Outside of our burst macro (Recklessness+Avatar+Skull Banner+Berserker Rage+Deadly Calm+STR PvP Trink), our sustained DPS is low-middle of the pack for melee. A Frost DK or WW Monk puts out a !@#$ton more sustained DPS than we do. With Overpower, Slam, Hamstring and Piercing Howl all competing for Rage, we're gonna be rage starved.


GAG ORDER:
Gag order on pummel was absolutley freaking ridiculous not going to lie, but it should be back on Heroic throw (Another Blizzard overkill nerf). When a mage blankets something for 4 seconds over 24 seconds it considered "pro" but Im guessing if a warrior does it My God that is freaking overkill take that !@#$ away! And with the uninteruptible casting buffs on almost every casting class and half of them like Hpallies dont even have to cast and when they do its uninteruptable for me.

Yep. To be an even bigger slap to the face, Monks get a 4 sec Silence baseline to their Spear Hand Strike, their interrupt with a 15 sec CD. In fact, my Monk can chain CC a caster for a solid 17-19 seconds. Spear Hand Strike for 4 sec Silence, Leg Sweep for 5 sec Stun, Fists of Fury for 2 sec Stun (DR), Paralyze for 4 sec Incapacitate, then Spear Hand Strike again for another Silence.

02/01/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Ill
Much needed nerfs, your class is a joke

Says the /lolbubblehearth class.
02/01/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Ill
Much needed nerfs, your class is a joke


In Cata we were a joke. Now we're strong again. You sound upset.
OVERPOWER:
But then for some reason they thought up to make overpower cost 10 rage?


I couldn't agree more. I have been rolling with the punches with these nerfs. But this seems excessive. 5 rage if anything, at most.

02/01/2013 07:33 PMPosted by Blademastaz
and 90% of the time I dont have enough rage for execute.


Yeap this x 1000. Most of the time I have to "hold off" on heroic strike to ensure I have 30 rage for execute to get a KB in arena. And now that overpower is 10 rage, seems extreme.

Now I'm quoting blues:

We’re hearing really mixed feedback on Arms’ rage at the moment and I suspect there is still a lot of experimentation and/or theorycrafting required to figure out when to use Overpower vs. Slam vs. Heroic Strike. (To be clear, we have a design, but we're not sure it's working yet.) Warriors nearly always ask for more, more, more rage, so just seeing posts requesting the same won’t be sufficient to convince us. Overall though, more analysis of how Arms rotation feels (in PvE and PvP) would be helpful.


(To be clear, we have a design, but we're not sure it's working yet.)


Umm, ok? You are game designers why don't you actually test this yourselves and see if it works. I don't think it should be "ambiguous" to what the rotation is with this over power change.

And not give cop out answers like.... "We have low pvp representation on PTR....."
02/01/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Ill
your class is a joke


The whack-a-mole class calling others a joke. So funny I forgot to laugh.
They have effectively nerfed our burst. Consider when you are under CD's. You could Heroic leap for off global damage, land and csmash -> MS -> OP -> heroic strike.

Now I am not sure about you guys, but generally under CD's, and whenever I get some short up time, I am watching the TFB procs. I tend to get alot of OP -> Tfb -> Heroic strike -> OP -> Tfb -> Heroic strike; basically equivalent to 3.5 /4 Slam crits in 2 globals.

Heroic strike under TFB atm hits about as hard as Slam, so with it being off global, you get that huge burst in your small up time window when you get it.

So now, heroic leap will not do meaningful damage, and heroic strike will probably never be touched unless you are simply overflowing with rage (Yeah right)

Thus, all of our burst and normal rotational damage will basically be limited to the GCD, add in that Overpower does poop damage, and when we DO make short contact with our target, we will have less attacks in the small time frame..

Well, you get the point. It is a bad, boring change. Cata sucked, but at least the rage system and rotation felt good.
Ghostcrawler has a thread in the ptr forums (PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues)

You might catch his attention in there. Because according to them, they are getting "mixed" feedback on OP rage cost.
Ghostcrawler has a thread in the ptr forums (PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues)

You might catch his attention in there. Because according to them, they are getting "mixed" feedback on OP rage cost.


Interesting. Do you remember any of the arguments for the rage cost being there?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7593740975?page=7#133

Warrior - A Prot Warrior using 2 pieces of the DPS set will get 1.0 RPPM of the enrage. - We agree with concerns that the new Arms rotation doesn't involve much rage management. We are considering a small rage cost for Overpower. Arms will likely need some additional retuning of damage because of the changes to Overpower, Taste for Blood and Slam -- we haven't completed tuning yet. - We made a change to warriors to double the effect of haste for them. This is similar to the shaman Flurry benefit, but is passive and not tied to an ability. We want to make haste a better stat for warriors without it eclipsing stats like crit -- we aren't trying to force every warrior to reforge.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415496638

Anyway, I got a chance to play around a bit on the PTR, and what I had suspected was confirmed. We are absolutely swimming in rage.


I'm *guessing* the second link is what GC was referring to.

edit:: sorry I'm very tired atm. Hope this is what you were looking for.
02/01/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Ill
Much needed nerfs, your class is a joke

Target audience.
Oh ya know... thats just great Blizzard.. nerf warriors when you have Demo locks, destro locks, and BM hunters doing burst just as big as what arms used to be able to do, but make theirs take little to no skill at all because pets do most of the work if not its just building up embers...
02/01/2013 09:59 PMPosted by Korbu
Pretty much. Outside of our burst macro (Recklessness+Avatar+Skull Banner+Berserker Rage+Deadly Calm+STR PvP Trink), our sustained DPS is low-middle of the pack for melee. A Frost DK or WW Monk puts out a !@#$ton more sustained DPS than we do. With Overpower, Slam, Hamstring and Piercing Howl all competing for Rage, we're gonna be rage starved.


So don't waste everything on a Swifty macro? I mean really guys.... That would be like me saying after I consume all the contents of my Fridge and Cabinets I have no food left!

Don't play like a mongo blowing everything you got for a quick kill, Warriors can still kill people with out blowing every CD. All classes have little left after blowing ALL their CDs?
So don't waste everything on a Swifty macro? I mean really guys.... That would be like me saying after I consume all the contents of my Fridge and Cabinets I have no food left!Don't play like a mongo blowing everything you got for a quick kill, Warriors can still kill people with out blowing every CD. All classes have little left after blowing ALL their CDs?


Thats what you would think but honestly with myself using my power trinket on every CD my sustained damage still falls short compared to others in live...And the problem with spreading out CDs is that MoP arena is all about blowing CDs in a solid CC window and hoping you can global the enemey before they can blow a defensive trinket lol

Warrior's on PTR right now are not viable at all in PTR with the overpower nerf...I mean for PvE you dont have to worry about spending rage on other things like keeping hamstring up or having to sit in defensive stance along with not actually being able to stay on targets and actually generate rage do to being kited and CC'd . Heroic Strike is completly off my bars because all I do now is try to Slam Spam.

And I would really !@#$ing appreciate it if Blizzard buffed Bladestorm to where it didnt tickle like back in Wrath.....the fact that it does so little damage now and makes you lose control of your character for 6 seconds just makes it so god damn unappealing.
02/04/2013 07:16 AMPosted by Blademastaz
And I would really !@#$ing appreciate it if Blizzard buffed Bladestorm to where it didnt tickle like back in Wrath.....the fact that it does so little damage now and makes you lose control of your character for 6 seconds just makes it so god damn unappealing.

Well if they dont want to increase the dmg they could make bladestorm like rain of fire is for locks. Just make it so you can spin and still hit people with dmg ablities
02/04/2013 07:42 AMPosted by Wolfyjosh
Well if they dont want to increase the dmg they could make bladestorm like rain of fire is for locks. Just make it so you can spin and still hit people with dmg ablities


Pfft I dont think any classes will be complaining when I blow all my cooldowns tick for a solid 40k a second with bladestorm while mortal striking for 60k...slam critting for 60k all while not being able to be slowed cced or disarmed
02/04/2013 07:47 AMPosted by Blademastaz
Pfft I dont think any classes will be complaining when I blow all my cooldowns tick for a solid 40k a second with bladestorm while mortal striking for 60k...slam critting for 60k all while not being able to be slowed cced or disarmed

make reck like it is with shield wall. While bladestorm is up you cant use reck or the other way around?
02/04/2013 06:38 AMPosted by Paníc
Pretty much. Outside of our burst macro (Recklessness+Avatar+Skull Banner+Berserker Rage+Deadly Calm+STR PvP Trink), our sustained DPS is low-middle of the pack for melee. A Frost DK or WW Monk puts out a !@#$ton more sustained DPS than we do. With Overpower, Slam, Hamstring and Piercing Howl all competing for Rage, we're gonna be rage starved.


So don't waste everything on a Swifty macro? I mean really guys.... That would be like me saying after I consume all the contents of my Fridge and Cabinets I have no food left!

Don't play like a mongo blowing everything you got for a quick kill, Warriors can still kill people with out blowing every CD. All classes have little left after blowing ALL their CDs?


Stacking cooldowns provides a multiplicitive boost in power. ie if you have a 20% buff and another 20% buff, using them separately gets you a 20% buff that lasts longer, using them at the same time gets you a 44% buff for a lesser duration. That 4% extra is a net gain for overall damage, so it actually hurts you to not stack cooldowns.

This is even more pronounced when you look at something like Recklessness+Skull Banner, where Skull Banner by itself is a barely noticeable boost, but with Recklessness it is nearly a extra short duration avatar.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7593740975?page=7#133

Warrior - A Prot Warrior using 2 pieces of the DPS set will get 1.0 RPPM of the enrage. - We agree with concerns that the new Arms rotation doesn't involve much rage management. We are considering a small rage cost for Overpower. Arms will likely need some additional retuning of damage because of the changes to Overpower, Taste for Blood and Slam -- we haven't completed tuning yet. - We made a change to warriors to double the effect of haste for them. This is similar to the shaman Flurry benefit, but is passive and not tied to an ability. We want to make haste a better stat for warriors without it eclipsing stats like crit -- we aren't trying to force every warrior to reforge.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415496638

Anyway, I got a chance to play around a bit on the PTR, and what I had suspected was confirmed. We are absolutely swimming in rage.


I'm *guessing* the second link is what GC was referring to.

edit:: sorry I'm very tired atm. Hope this is what you were looking for.


Yes this was a case of complaining about one thing, and devs go change something else entirely. With the new TFB, Overpower was taking up more GCDs than on live, meaning far fewer globals left open for Slamming, so all that extra rage that couldn't go into Slam anymore went into Heroic Strike. Like in my tests, literally hitting hs about 2x as often as slam. Going with Stormbolt/Shockwave instead was getting down to using slam like once or twice a minute, really pathetic.

Rather than bringing Overpower usage back down slightly, they instead added the rage cost on to Overpower, to eat up that same rage, while still leaving slam rarely used (unless it turns out spamming slam in a CS is the optimal rotation, over using OP for extra CS procs). And now they're trying to change everything around to fit that new design better.

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