Help With Crappy Shadow DPS

Priest
I have Ilvl 476 all epics besides one trinket , one ring and my pants
-Some of my gear is enchanted, not the best , its one area where i skimped a bit.
-All of my gear is gemmed up
- My gear is all reforged properly and to the right stats

However, when I do LFR , or sha or anything really, I am usually around 11th - 15th place, I havent been keeping too close of an eye on the dps but in the sha group i just did, where I really didnt try that hard ( I was distracted) I made 52k , #4 was 63k #2 was 70 and #1 was 90, this has been a constant thing, not the dps but the place, ive been in 13-14 quite often and i feel bad (even when they are close), ive been raiding since TBC.

I dont know what I am doing wrong, in the sha group #1 had less than 10 ilvls on me, as i said im gemmed up and geared.
My opening is MB>VT>SW:P>MF
my proiority is DP>MB>SW:D(1sr one)>VT/SW:P>SW:D(second)>Proced MS>MF
( is there a diff if i go SWP > VT or VT>SWP?)
My stat prio is Intel>Haste>Crit>Mastery with hit in there obv.
And I use FDCL and DI

EDIT:
I havent read everything yet but yes I do use addons like dot timers and everything i have been for years and more also yeah I value haste the most.. so im trying there

also some of my gear is from pvp which I reforged to disc , and I guess i forgot to switch back

OK yeah so i relized I did have a disc back , belt and wrists on my bad and aparently some items were reforged wrong
I hit ilvl 480 today, you have 479, so our gear is basically the same.

My opener is different, i go for SWP before VT, to improve the chances of procing an extra mind blast, but that is quit a tiny difference.

I topped DPS on Mogushan Vaults once, but that is prob because people runing it have less gear, usually iam 5 or 6 on all LFR raids.

11-15 DPS is not where you should be with your gear, but expect to be around 5-9 most of the time in LFR.

Are you using addons?

I suggest tidy plates (to keep you dot durations when multi doting), reforge lite (get the maximun from your gear), shadow timers (a must have).

Sry for my poor english, and good luck.
You aren't haste capped either, aim for 8085 haste and then stack crit rating.

INT > Hit 15% > Haste (8085) > Crit > Mastery
It looks like you're sharing gear between your shadow and disc specs. Is that the case? If not, make sure to log out in your shadow gear. If so, that's some of your issue: spirit is great as disc, but when you go shadow it's converted to hit -- and anything over 15% hit is completely wasted. If you have to share gear between specs, the compromise is that your performance is going to be lower.
First of everything, dont expect to be at top of any raid boss, (this coming from a H raider) Shadow Priest are lowest DPS class in game ATM so dont get any hopes.

Second, get to haste cap even if it means loosing some int from gems. Haste plat for this tier is 8085, but just to be save I aim for 25% haste

Third, try to always start a boss with 3 orbs (unless after a wipe then you going in with 0 orbs) my opener with 3 orbs from trash is: VT, SWP, DP, MB, MF and then priorities come. keep an eye on your procs, if you can tell everything popped redo your dots on target even if they are half way only (now this is hard to keep track on but helps if you can do it all time).

And last keep up with talents, every fight is different talent set up, DI is good on single target and for multi-dotting, but if the fight includes adds that will die fast ToF becomes better.

Good luck with your Shadow Priest, and remember Skill>Gear
02/05/2013 10:01 PMPosted by Lykorys
First of everything, dont expect to be at top of any raid boss, (this coming from a H raider) Shadow Priest are lowest DPS class in game ATM so dont get any hopes.


No iteration of data from raidbots bears this assertion out. Not 25m Heroic or normal, not 10 man heroic or normal. We are not the lowest dps in the game.

Second, get to haste cap even if it means loosing some int from gems. Haste plat for this tier is 8085, but just to be save I aim for 25% haste


Given his gear level, he would have to give up far too much int to reach the haste plateau. Howtopriest has covered this in detail.

Third, try to always start a boss with 3 orbs (unless after a wipe then you going in with 0 orbs) my opener with 3 orbs from trash is: VT, SWP, DP, MB, MF and then priorities come. keep an eye on your procs, if you can tell everything popped redo your dots on target even if they are half way only (now this is hard to keep track on but helps if you can do it all time).


This is also an oversimplification. Refreshing dots depends on

1) enchant/trinket procs when the original dot was cast
2) enchant/trinket procs on the dot to be cast currently
3) Time remaining on the dot

Again, howtopriest has a post on this that is easy enough to find.

And last keep up with talents, every fight is different talent set up, DI is good on single target and for multi-dotting, but if the fight includes adds that will die fast ToF becomes better.


For a pure single target fight, mind bender is better.

To the op: just go read howtopriest. You are getting some overgeneralized/just plain wrong info here.
Of course equipment is important, but also the fight.

If you're fighting a large group and each individual goes down fairly fast, you probably don't want to waste your time with DOTs. You could just use Mind Sear to damage your target and the surrounding mobs. However, keep your eye on you mana.

If you have a few tough bosses that are near each other, apply your dots, start mind sear and while it's running switch to the next boss who's dots are running low. When MS is done apply dots and any procs and start MS again and while it's running switch. This lets you keep damage going at all times while keeping your dots up.

Single target, keep your dots up, use your spell procs, use Mind Flay as filler. Don't reapply dots too early. As long as you're keeping VT up, you should be okay on mana.

When applying DOTs, if you cast Vapiric Touch then very quickly apply Shadow Word: Pain you can fit them all in one global cool down, thus saving wasted time, which adds up over the course of an encounter.
I havent read everything yet but yes I do use addons like dot timers and everything i have been for years and more also yeah I value haste the most.. so im trying there

also some of my gear is from pvp which I reforged to disc , and I guess i forgot to switch back

also thanks dic a few things didnt gel with what I had read on how to priest, ill look into it some more

but man, DI and mindbender are on dif tiers
02/06/2013 01:30 AMPosted by Prdan
When applying DOTs, if you cast Vapiric Touch then very quickly apply Shadow Word: Pain you can fit them all in one global cool down, thus saving wasted time, which adds up over the course of an encounter.


Howhat? Can you explain this a little more? SW:P won't activate a GCD?
because the GCD happens during the cast i think is his point , theres still a GCD but its after they are both applied

When applying DOTs, if you cast Vapiric Touch then very quickly apply Shadow Word: Pain you can fit them all in one global cool down, thus saving wasted time, which adds up over the course of an encounter.


Unfortunately this isn't the case, it may seem to be since you can fit both simultaneously, but in reality VT lands at the end of the first GCD and SW:P lands on the start of the second GCD. It may seem to land at the same time, but the entire process still takes two GCDs to complete.
02/06/2013 01:30 AMPosted by Prdan
When applying DOTs, if you cast Vapiric Touch then very quickly apply Shadow Word: Pain you can fit them all in one global cool down, thus saving wasted time, which adds up over the course of an encounter.


No.
Gem flat haste unless you lose more than 480 intellect through socket bonuses. Or...something along those lines. Only go for socket bonuses if it's a nice haste bonus. Ie, see shadow tier chest and all dat sexeh haste.
02/06/2013 01:36 AMPosted by Gerasa
but man, DI and mindbender are on dif tiers


Never go full potato. oops.
02/06/2013 01:30 AMPosted by Prdan
When applying DOTs, if you cast Vapiric Touch then very quickly apply Shadow Word: Pain you can fit them all in one global cool down, thus saving wasted time, which adds up over the course of an encounter.


02/06/2013 02:01 AMPosted by Merrz
Howhat? Can you explain this a little more? SW:P won't activate a GCD?


as Nixxe said, the advice given here is misleading and only applies *potentially* to precasting on a pull. since VT is the same duration as the gcd (1.5 seconds scaling with haste), casting either it OR sw:p in either order will take exactly the same amount of time and saves nothing.
A few things
( I will add better punctuation and stuff soon i have to do something so i typed it fast )
@Zsunny,
i don't know if this is right but assume a 2 Global timer period , if you cast
SW:P>VT you get SW:P at beginning of 1st global and VT and end of 2nd, if you cast VT>SW:P, you get Vt at the end of one global and SWP at the start of another, This means that VT>SW:P has them casted closer together and the VT and SW:P are casted in one global , then basically a global as a CoolDown, If these were smite like spells it def wouldn't matter but because they are dots, and tic during the global , maybe the dps is upped slightly? I honestly have no idea if it makes a diff, I dont theory craft much though I have run sims before, maybe this needs one, Although i prefer the feel of VT>SW:P and I usually move during the GlobalCD if I have to and dont have to worry about casting VT right away idk really

@mytosis I
have heard from a few people the stat weights for haste under the cap and ive been told I am not close enough to the cap to do that yet but I have haste gems ready but there is no way for me to hit the cap without losing more than 480 imo but Ill look into it and if that number is correct

@ Dictinabox
What do potatoes have to do with my proc heavy spec?

@Tsilyi -
Yeah with what I mentioned at the start and doing it pre pull it might add up but then id have to not MB to pull

also any more tips? some of these are nice, but the haste ones , the dot ones, contradict,
I reforged so other ones don't help . . . idk some prio discussion but am i dong something wrong in combat?
Ignore the thing about dot GCDs, it's wrong.

One trick you *can* do is if you get a DI proc in the middle of casting MB, it doesn't waste the proc and you can fire 2 MBs back to back. So you can cast SW:P, then get VT out and be casting MB when Pain ticks. Over the course of the fight, getting that initial jump isn't going to be a huge deal, but if you pre-pot and manage to get 2 DPs with all your procs triggered it can be pretty sweet.

And yeah, it's hard to haste cap without a selection of better gear. I reached it by using LFR Light of the Cosmos and the 5.1 valor trinket, without those huge static haste jumps I wasn't even close.
Definitely, look at simcraft for your current stat weights. You can then plug those personal values into AskMrRobot to get some ideas on what you can do to get to the haste soft cap but remember the Howtopriest.com haste breakpoint rule of thumb is don't replace more than 452 INT for haste to get to the cap.

I'm not haste capped and would need to replace at least 700 INT to do so along with some other stats and I'm nearly 15 ilvls higher than the OP's gear, so I would have to say 8085 haste should really not yet be on her/his radar.
02/07/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Taheraliel
15 ilvls higher


how did you manage to get to that ilvl and have the elegon trinket and still not even be close? that's quite a feat! i was over 8085 in the 480s or low 490s even without pure haste gems.
It's the itemization. No haste on:

Shoulders
Cloak
Bracers
Weapon
OH
Belt
Boots

I began reforging haste into crit around 497-498 ilevel because of the sheer excess but it depends on exactly which items you've picked up.

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