LFD loot

General Discussion
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If you are not interested in beating a dead horse, move on. Otherwise, feel free to join in the fun.

There has been a lot of debate about LFD loot. MS>OS, if the dice are lit, hit it and go for it, ask before looting anything.

We all know what Blizzard's stance is, as in you are equally able to gear up your toon, not just the spec you zoned in with, or the role you chose to fulfill.

The community, however, seems split on which philosophy should be embraced. As with any community, there is always going to be differing views. And just as with any community, regardless of how you feel someone should act, the fact is as long as the governing force has a certain stance, your view counts for very little.

It's as simple as a small town. If you don't like the color of a house, the way they keep their lawn or what kind of music they listen to, as long as they don't break any rules, you can't do anything about them. Except... not interact with them.

And that last line is the key. If you go to a community event, you have to put up with those people you don't like, and the choices they make. If you don't like it, you have two options. Change the rules, or interact with like-minded people.

Translating into WoW terms: If you don't like how LFD loot works(the community event governed by Blizzard), you can try to change the rules, or only interact with like-minded people. As we can see, changing the rules isn't/hasn't/won't work. All you are left with is to interact with people who think the same as you.

Yes, I can mention vote kick as an alternative, but this is an ineffective method of enforcing *your rules*.

My personal stance? I will need what I need for my character. Most of the time I am nice about it, but sometimes, if I have been after a certain item for a long time, I will roll need regardless. Only thing I would change about the loot system is Str users rolling on AGI items, and vice versa. But that's it. If you have a different stance, either vote kick one person in your group who feels differently(and risk getting another person who feels the same and can't be kicked), or make your own group. It's pretty simple, nothing truly complicated about it.
MS should always take priority over OS. However, there are some people who try out a spec, don't like it, and have to re-spec. And there's really no way of proving that someone is re-speccing.

The polite thing to do is roll need on current spec gear, and ASK before rolling need on any non-current spec gear.
MS should always take priority over OS. However, there are some people who try out a spec, don't like it, and have to re-spec. And there's really no way of proving that someone is re-speccing.

The polite thing to do is roll need on current spec gear, and ASK before rolling need on any non-current spec gear.


Your view, as I said before. Not everyone embraces it, nor should they have to.
MS should always take priority over OS. However, there are some people who try out a spec, don't like it, and have to re-spec. And there's really no way of proving that someone is re-speccing.

The polite thing to do is roll need on current spec gear, and ASK before rolling need on any non-current spec gear.


Your view, as I said before. Not everyone embraces it, nor should they have to.


What's the point of this thread then...?
I've seen a lot of these threads that get going to several pages going back and forth. I was curious how the community would react to this post.
02/06/2013 03:53 PMPosted by Senoria
I've seen a lot of these threads that get going to several pages going back and forth. I was curious how the community would react to this post.


It just seemed odd that it came off as a "What's your views", yet the first post you say "Well that's your opinion"

My 2 cents, I'd like to think at least 80% of the population believes in MS>OS with the way PUGs usually go.
MS should always take priority over OS. However, there are some people who try out a spec, don't like it, and have to re-spec. And there's really no way of proving that someone is re-speccing.

The polite thing to do is roll need on current spec gear, and ASK before rolling need on any non-current spec gear.


Your view, as I said before. Not everyone embraces it, nor should they have to.


This. I'm not rabid on the subject - but I feel the social pressure to conform to MS>OS quite keenly, even if no one is there to bite me about it.

Ironically, this issue that gets most people hung up doesn't really matter to me. I'm usually more hung up on getting things done than arguing over spoils.

My philosophy for things like this is "shut up and act." Others will do what they find acceptable to them. I've come to terms with that, and it makes the game much more enjoyable to not be hung up on loot.

Why am I able to shove aside loot issues?

Well, part of it is that I don't, as of posting this, have any capped toons. Just downing bosses is enough to progress, at present. Loot is, FTMP, gravy.

02/06/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Jesterjoe
I've seen a lot of these threads that get going to several pages going back and forth. I was curious how the community would react to this post.


It just seemed odd that it came off as a "What's your views", yet the first post you say "Well that's your opinion"

My 2 cents, I'd like to think at least 80% of the population believes in MS>OS with the way PUGs usually go.


Jesterjoe, I think the OP was taking issue with the fact that that first reply stated their opinion - which you also noticed was an opinion - as if it were a factual and unequivocable truth.

Despite what the most prosaic of people might say, presentation matters.
MS should always take priority over OS. However, there are some people who try out a spec, don't like it, and have to re-spec. And there's really no way of proving that someone is re-speccing.

The polite thing to do is roll need on current spec gear, and ASK before rolling need on any non-current spec gear.


Your view, as I said before. Not everyone embraces it, nor should they have to.


I thought this was a discussion on the subject? Not an "I'm right, you're wrong" argument.

I think maybe it's time to discuss it in this form:

1) What is your prefered method of rolling in the LFG?
2) Why?
3) Okay, why do you feel that way?
4) In cases of those that still sit with MS>OS, do you try to enforce it when you are with random people?
5) In the case of "I roll on it because it's for my class", do you:

a. Ask if everyone is kosher with that first?
b. Make sure no one else needs the item for the role they are playing before rolling on it?
c. Roll need anyway after someone has stated at the beginning of the run the exact piece they are after to please not roll on it?

These kinds of questions are what we should be talking about. Not getting at each others throats.
esterjoe, I think the OP was taking issue with the fact that that first reply stated their opinion - which you also noticed was an opinion - as if it were a factual and unequivocable truth.

Despite what the most prosaic of people might say, presentation matters.


Indeed.



Your view, as I said before. Not everyone embraces it, nor should they have to.


I thought this was a discussion on the subject? Not an "I'm right, you're wrong" argument.

I think maybe it's time to discuss it in this form:

1) What is your prefered method of rolling in the LFG?
2) Why?
3) Okay, why do you feel that way?
4) In cases of those that still sit with MS>OS, do you try to enforce it when you are with random people?
5) In the case of "I roll on it because it's for my class", do you:

a. Ask if everyone is kosher with that first?
b. Make sure no one else needs the item for the role they are playing before rolling on it?
c. Roll need anyway after someone has stated at the beginning of the run the exact piece they are after to please not roll on it?

These kinds of questions are what we should be talking about. Not getting at each others throats.


A good form. Will the rest of the replies conform to it? Time will tell.
I have an addon that shows me what everyone rolls. So if I want something for my OS I wait to see if anyone pops a need the said item and if they don't, I'll need on it. But like OP said, if it something I've been after for a good long while, I'll roll regardless, but that is a rare case.
A good form. Will the rest of the replies conform to it? Time will tell.


Go ahead and steal it to put into your first post.
Jesterjoe, I think the OP was taking issue with the fact that that first reply stated their opinion - which you also noticed was an opinion - as if it were a factual and unequivocable truth.

Despite what the most prosaic of people might say, presentation matters.


Well, that makes more sense, but at the same time, so used to people posting opinions to refuse to see other's opinions, which I was getting the feeling of from that. But, now I understand what OP meant.
I was more looking for a reaction to this post, which I thought brought more to the table than an "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude which I see from most posts. I wanted to see if there were objections, or any flaws with my point of view, so that I could adjust accordingly.

I wanted on open discussion, not just people saying, "This is how I feel looting should be." Of course, this is an open thread, so I will never object to people speaking their minds, as long as it is on topic of course.
I want to gear up my class and LFD loot rules are designed to do that so I join LFD groups to gear up my class.

Why are the loot rules in LFD designed to enable players to gear up their class instead of just one spec of their class at a time?

To keep LFD queues as short as possible by encouraging players who can tank/heal to do so regardless of which spec of their class they want to gear up.

To include the most players possible (those that can use the gear) in having an equal chance to win gear.

If you have issues with the design of the game, take them to the devs.

If you don't want to play with other players who want to gear up their class, joining an LFD group is not the smartest way to avoid playing with other players who want to gear up their class.
1) What is your prefered method of rolling in the LFG?
2) Why?
3) Okay, why do you feel that way?
4) In cases of those that still sit with MS>OS, do you try to enforce it when you are with random people?
5) In the case of "I roll on it because it's for my class", do you:

a. Ask if everyone is kosher with that first?
b. Make sure no one else needs the item for the role they are playing before rolling on it?
c. Roll need anyway after someone has stated at the beginning of the run the exact piece they are after to please not roll on it?


1) I'm of the old school MS>OS thing- however if someone doesn't need the piece that drops, there's always that exception.

2) People rarely agree with this on the forums but I think if you are performing the role you queued for, you should have first dibs on gear if you need it.

3) From my experience (at least with guildies) people rarely use their second spec unless it's for pvp or- in the cases of tanks/healers, a one tank/don't need 3 healers fight. in my opinion, the person that needs it the most at that moment is the person performing the role- especially at the beginning of an expac.

4) I won't enforce it, but if it causes an argument between two people in the party, I'll agree to a VtK (if it's brought up) on the person that caused the issue by not asking first.

Now, in the case of the person performing the role doesn't need the item, I don't mind if people roll for off spec. I even make it a habit of telling folks in group that I don't need anything from the instance, that way they know that I'm cool if they roll on it.
I want to gear up my class and LFD loot rules are designed to do that so I join LFD groups to gear up my class.

If you have issues with the design of the game, take them to the devs.

If you don't want to play with other players who want to gear up their class, joining an LFD group is not the smartest way to avoid playing with other players who want to gear up their class.


A...brutish way of stating your stance. Now, to scrutinize. Why do you feel this way?


To keep LFD queues as short as possible by encouraging players who can tank/heal to do so regardless of which spec of their class they want to gear up.

To include the most players possible (those that can use the gear) in having an equal chance to win gear.
1) What is your prefered method of rolling in the LFG?
2) Why?
3) Okay, why do you feel that way?
4) In cases of those that still sit with MS>OS, do you try to enforce it when you are with random people?
5) In the case of "I roll on it because it's for my class", do you:

a. Ask if everyone is kosher with that first?
b. Make sure no one else needs the item for the role they are playing before rolling on it?
c. Roll need anyway after someone has stated at the beginning of the run the exact piece they are after to please not roll on it?


1) Current system
2) Because it's the 'most fair' system as it allows for 5-mans to gear up characters not specs.
3) because it's how I've always done 5-mans since I started playing in Feb '06
4) N/A as I've never done MS>OS in 5-mans.
5) a) Nope
b) Nope
c) if it's an upgrade for me yup.

I roll need on upgrades for my character, else I roll greed.

7 years playing, 7 years never once using a different system to roll in 5-man dungeons.
This is good, this is good so far.

Now, my question must be asked. When you run into someone with differing views from your own, how do you react? Why do you react in such a manner?

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