Set bonuses come too late in 10 mans

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Considering that there are only 5 tier pieces and you need 4 of them to get the bonus, and the last and second to last boss both drop tier, you can't possibly get non-LFR 4-set until you are killing all but one boss anyway, regardless of your raid size. RNG has only a little to do with it, it's the division of loot between bosses that forces that outcome.

I think it's intended that you use tier N's set bonus in tier N+1, because Blizzard has to know that they designed it so that you can't get it until you're almost finished with tier N.
i'm an advocate of the no-class specific tier tokens, never understood the reasoning why it didn't stay that way when they changed it for that one tier back in wrath -- i guess blizzard didn't like the fact that a boss would drop an item that was (almost) always used by someone in the raid
02/04/2013 07:40 AMPosted by Seruto
i guess blizzard didn't like the fact that a boss would drop an item that was (almost) always used by someone in the raid


Because a) it set up loot drama in raiding guilds especially when new players came into the field with who gets what and when, and b) It gave people a timeframe of when they'd have their gear. AKA week 1 player X's turn to get fully kitted out etc. They don't want that predictability.
I'm still using an LFR chest and I still don't have a sha touched dagger (coined the fist the other night on empress) and I raid 25s. RNG exists in both sizes.
Not sure I understand this complaint. If the set bonus is useful enough, complete the set with an LFR piece. If its not, then why do you care?

Also not sure why you measure usefulness based off of what additional stuff you will kill this tier. By that metric, why should heroic end bosses drop loot at all? The gear you obtain this tier will help you progress faster in the next. Its also unreasonable to expect that you'll get everything you want as rapidly as you want.
Don't get me wrong, set bonuses are generally cool and give a little DPS boost. But I don't believe raid encounters are balanced around having them.


Given the nature of balancing, the power of bonuses, and the history regarding some of the more powerful ones (like T13), I don't see how you could think that they don't.

Mind you, even if they don't directly go "Jump boss health up by 5% to account for set bonuses", when they ballpark a value and that value is based on an "expected set/gear level", it brings set bonuses in by default.
To give you guys an idea of the differences in gearing in 10 mans vs 25 mans:

- In Firelands, it took me 11-12 kills of Majordomo to finally complete my Mage's 4-set with Majordomo's shoulders.

- In Patch 5.1, my Warlock just finally got his 4-set after 12 kills of Amber Shaper Un'sok.
Two data points does not demonstrate the relative rate of 4p completion in 10m vs 25m.

Yes, 25 gets more tier tokens (1/10 vs 3(?)/25; (lol 2% difference)), so on average 25m tier saturation should happen marginally faster than 10m. But two unlucky data points from a single 10m and no 25 evidence does not demonstrate anything.

I can quickly generate a counter example from my own experience, just as you have - my 25m raiding guild in ICC had 11/12H on farm for many months, in that time we got exactly 5 heroic conqueror tokens to divy up amongst a conqueror heavy(ish) raid group. Needless to say I never got any heroic tier tokens during ICC. Oh well.

I get my 4-set at a point where we have already killed what we're going to kill this tier. I don't expect that we will down any more heroic bosses, so the fact that I now have a 4-set is pretty much useless for this tier.

I expect it's going to be useless after the first couple of weeks in 5.2 as well, since the item level difference is going to be too large to not upgrade.

My understanding is that most people in 25-man raids that can at least clear normal content have their 4-sets within a few weeks, so that 4-sets are actually relevant for progression.
I suspect part of your progression issues are attitude problems, as this and your past threads indicate.

PS I am a lol 10m raider.
lol@First Tank and Gear Priority.
Considering that there are only 5 tier pieces and you need 4 of them to get the bonus, and the last and second to last boss both drop tier, you can't possibly get non-LFR 4-set until you are killing all but one boss anyway, regardless of your raid size. RNG has only a little to do with it, it's the division of loot between bosses that forces that outcome.

I think it's intended that you use tier N's set bonus in tier N+1, because Blizzard has to know that they designed it so that you can't get it until you're almost finished with tier N.


Well, actually the last 2 tier pieces come on the 15th and 16th bosses of a 32 boss tier.

Normal mode T14 4 piece is incredibly useful for heroic modes. Especially heroic MsV where the ilvl difference is so small anyways.

So I don't get the complaint about the set bonuses coming "late", (I think OP remembers DS where the set pieces came quickly and very early for a tier.) You still have 1/2 the bosses to go.

I think T14 4 piece normal mode, depending on power of the bonus, could get replaced relatively quickly in T15 with a massive ilvl jump. Heroic T14 4 piece probably will be used through many heroic T15 encounters depending on speed of completion by a particular guild.
I'm just a fan of class-specific tokens because then it works like other loot. If it's not the right armor type and primary stat, then you have no interest in it. But with universal tokens, how do you decide who gets it? You either have to decide someone is going to get the tokens first and get their 2pc/4pc well before anyone else, or you spread them out one by one and it takes even longer to get those bonuses.

And I guess it depends on what you're balancing around. Normal modes wouldn't be balanced around set bonuses as you're not likely to get the 4pc until you've killed the last or second to last boss a couple times, barring getting lucky. As for Heroic modes, yeah maybe they're being taken into account, but then again, you're purposely taking on the hardest encounters in the game, all of which were done without set bonuses. I don't see too many complaints usually about Heroic tuning, as improvements in play can usually overcome any lack of set bonuses.
I treat the set bonus as a small nerf to content for people that have got it on farm..

If you want your set bonus faster than 12 weeks then LFR is just about the only option. (or officer loot and you're an officer)

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