New Rep Faction in 5.2 earned from Raiding?

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02/01/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Sorchia
don't worry guys you can get the reputation in LFR, they wouldnt want all of their casual noob subscribers to cancel now would they?


02/01/2013 08:55 PMPosted by Chadwarden
cry more, casuals


And these are two perfect quotes as to part of the reason why I quit hardcore raiding. Sick of the elitist attitudes, sick of people cutting others down for their choice of playstyles. I don't PUG because how rotten people treat each other. Using any lfg function is like pouring salt into my eyes.

Yuck.

I went casual this expansion, totally enjoyed the dailys and solo content, ran a couple things here and there with my small guild, and just about completely geared up via VP through my rep grinds and had a very good time.

If you throw the argument out there *Why do you need better gear if you are not raiding?* One point, I agree, gear is a tool, I don't use it for ego boost, but it is also an incentive and a goal to work toward, and as someone said above *Who are you to dictate what I need and do not need?*

If this is all ending to appease the snot nosed raiders, then I have no reason to play anymore and neither do a lot of people.

Raiders/Arena will always have the best stuff, ALWAYS, so who cares how others get their stuff??

Cry more how WoW is dying and losing subs..

And these are two perfect quotes as to part of the reason why I quit hardcore raiding. Sick of the elitist attitudes, sick of people cutting others down for their choice of playstyles. I don't PUG because how rotten people treat each other. Using any lfg function is like pouring salt into my eyes.


Uh, you just did exactly that, except you insulted the wrong section of the player base.

Enjoy being part of the problem you supposedly hate?
02/01/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Bashiok
"Huzzah! The hero hath once again slain many inconsequential foes, to leap through thine magic portal, and oft returneth to... doeth the same task over and again! Verily, this is a champion worthy of our shiny baubles and trinkets."

Compare to:
"Hazzah! The hero has once more planted a crop, picked up a box, and cleaned up dragon poop! Let up reward him for doing the tasks we didn't want to take care of ourselves while we still take the credit for the players' actions!"
All of it is a skewed a little weirdly due to it being a video game world. I mean, aren't we entering that portal every week to kill bosses who dwindle in significance and difficulty as our gear improves anyway?

My trolling aside, thank you for allowing rep gains in LFR.

02/01/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Sorchia
don't worry guys you can get the reputation in LFR, they wouldnt want all of their casual noob subscribers to cancel now would they?
Because if they do, who will subsidize all those elite raids for 5% of the population to use?

And these are two perfect quotes as to part of the reason why I quit hardcore raiding. Sick of the elitist attitudes, sick of people cutting others down for their choice of playstyles. I don't PUG because how rotten people treat each other. Using any lfg function is like pouring salt into my eyes.


Uh, you just did exactly that, except you insulted the wrong section of the player base.

Enjoy being part of the problem you supposedly hate?


What???

I cut no one down for their choice of playstyles I simply pointed out as to why I choose not to use certain options in this game because of how people treat each other. I have yet to run with a group and not have someone say something crappy to the tank or the healer or the dps. There is no reason to treat each other so badly. And the snot nosed raider comment is about attitude, not playstyle choices.

So how am I part of the problem? And what problem are you refering to?

I see more people cutting down how I choose to play and somehow their time is more valuable because they do X or Y and they didn't want to do option Z, and OMG how they cried about option Z, and yet I chose to do option Z and had a great time and so did a lot of other people. I probably spend more time in game than a lot of log on on raid day only raiders.

Like I said, raiders and arena will always have the best stuff, ALWAYS, but in their drive to be special snowflakes, they aren't content with just that, they have to cry until options are taken from others...

That to me is attitude, not playstyle.

So, Yeah.....
02/02/2013 07:42 AMPosted by Tepiny
I cut no one down for their choice of playstyles


02/02/2013 07:10 AMPosted by Tepiny
If this is all ending to appease the snot nosed raiders,


02/02/2013 07:10 AMPosted by Tepiny
Sick of the elitist attitudes, sick of people cutting others down for their choice of playstyles


02/02/2013 07:10 AMPosted by Tepiny
I don't PUG because how rotten people treat each other.


02/02/2013 07:42 AMPosted by Tepiny
but in their drive to be special snowflakes, they aren't content with just that, they have to cry until options are taken from others
So is the throne of thunder LFR going to be open the same time as the normal raid? If not that means that some guild clearing will still have rep advantage and it's not ACTUALLY the same speed
02/01/2013 06:40 PMPosted by Littledeer
Had a tank in LFR today who was peridically AFK. A tank! Thankfully the other was enough to get the job done up to the last boss.
I had an off tank in LFR the other day who didn't seem to have a clue that he needed to taunt the boss off me so I could clear my stacks. I whispered him "please taunt." A few mins later, he whispered me back "I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had queued as tank. I've been in dps spec this whole time." It was the 3rd boss...
I cut no one down for their choice of playstyles


If this is all ending to appease the snot nosed raiders,


Sick of the elitist attitudes, sick of people cutting others down for their choice of playstyles


I don't PUG because how rotten people treat each other.


but in their drive to be special snowflakes, they aren't content with just that, they have to cry until options are taken from others


What is your point? That I am critcizing how badly people treat each other? Oh I see, because I point that out, I am part of the problem? Or you think my choice of wording is cutting people down for playstyles?

Nope, just attitudes.

Twisted logic you have there, sister, but I guess you might be one of the people who likes feeling better than someone else because of how you choose to play this game?

I could care less which part of this game others enjoy, what I do not like is how people treat each other or want to take from others because how they perceive their choices somehow deserve more or better.

For the third time I will state. RAIDERS AND ARENA WILL ALWAYS ALWAYS HAVE THE BEST STUFF and yet they want to dictate who gets what or who deserves what because they do not raid or arena and are the first to CUT DOWN OTHERS WHO DO NOT CHOOSE THOSE OPTIONS.

Shall I throw in a comment that would truly make your twisted point true?

I think raiders are whiney babies about dailys, considering the amount of crap grinding I had to do in previous expansions to hardcore raid and guess what? We didn't whine to Blizzard about it even half as much as the raiders whine now. We saw what needed to be done and we did it, and we had the coolest stuff because not only did we raid, we did the required grind. Dailys are not a grind, by a long shot.

I thought it was dang cool dailys gave out great stuff this expansion, I had a really good time, and I could do it on my own and I got a sense of personal satisfaction. Mock my picking up poop or whatever all you want to, but I got decent gear and some fun vanity items.

I am sure that above comment will rankle some raiders, they will be irked I got good gear by picking fruit and slapping Mogu and not facing some uber leet raid boss. But why? Your stuff will still be better than mine in the end, you will still get the cool titles, and shiney mounts and whatever else Blizz gives raiders, so WHY DO YOU CARE???

I did content, I got rewarded for it. Others do their content and they get rewarded for it.

Blah, I am done with this....
02/01/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Bashiok
If it is.. will a person get enough rep from just three wings of LFR to be able to buy something to avoid running into the 3000 point valor cap?


Yup, we'll make sure items are paced out to hopefully avoid that. Getting to Friendly is pretty quick, and there are items available at all reputation levels.


Thank you for posting this, Bashiok. A lot of us aren't paying close enough attention to the PTR stuff to have known this, and it's a real relief to hear.

Hopefully you guys did enough with new VP gear to keep the daily guys that don't even do LFR happy. I know the raiding and PvP changes look like those camps will be happy, so just keep those crazy daily guys happy and everyone's golden :)
BTW, Jujubiju, why do you need epics? I mean LFR is faceroll, carry through. Raids are tuned for heroics dungeon blues. And heroic raids, well you can pick that up during LFR/normal raiding. So heroics don't need to offer any epics because the next tier will be based on the lowest raid factor. You are just taking away from your challenge.

Nobody needs better gear but it is the carrot on the stick that keeps you going. Everybody likes to advance their toons and level has been changed to ilvl in endgame.


Epics have always been a tool for end game raiding- be it LFR to heroic raiding. That's it. I don't roll on epics just to look pretty. I do it because I want to help my raid group progress.

To answer your original question: the main reason I am sitting in LFR gear is because both of the guilds I raid with started raiding a little later this expac.

Heroic/LFR/Reps gear helps with progression in Raid 1. Gear from Raid 1 helps with progression for Raid 2. So on and so forth.

Raids actually have all kinds of checks in them: dps checks, healer checks, heck- even tank checks. That is where gear comes in: stats help improve overall survivability, makes my heals heal for harder, and help a good dps dps even better.

I thought you would understand this with the way LFR's ilvl gating was set up- but I guess you obviously don't.

It's not- and has never been- about being a special snowflake for a lot of folks that think there should be a certain gear progression path. Sure, every once in a blue moon one of "those" posts will pop up but those folks also think LFR/LFG needs to go away and we need to return to the BC days. Don't group me with "those" types because I will never be one of "those" types.

My major problem is this: the so called "casuals" that expect Bliz to just hand them gear because they don't want to do group content. A true casual player- and I know a few of them- are content with what they can get. They don't demand Bliz cater to their play style at the expense of the rest of the player base.

They don't grumble and complain when Bliz decides to try something completely different in the next patch either. Those players understand what the purples are for. They also understand that Blizzard fluctuates on certain patches and tries different things.

All of this, however, is a debate for another thread and totally derails the OP's thread.

As for:

I think raiders are whiney babies about dailys, considering the amount of crap grinding I had to do in previous expansions to hardcore raid and guess what? We didn't whine to Blizzard about it even half as much as the raiders whine now. We saw what needed to be done and we did it, and we had the coolest stuff because not only did we raid, we did the required grind. Dailys are not a grind, by a long shot.


Look: I am not opposed to grinds. I, myself, am used to them. What I am opposed to is the way Bliz gated the VP these last couple of patches with no true alternative for those of us that wanted to do something besides dailies.

I played during BC- I did the Isles of Quel (on the hunter, this one didn't exist back then). I even got up to exalted with them. I even grinded Undercity rep when it was somewhat hard (lots of wowhead back in those days just to find quests) so I could get the undead ponies on my hunter.

A lot of us are just sick of those kinds of grinds. The problem with the tabard system was that there was no weekly limit on how much rep you could get.

One of my issues with expac reps in general is that after a single patch- they generally don't mean anything. Why should I care about a rep that's going to mean nothing next patch? If Bliz stuck with those reps throughout an expac- I might actually care. I don't need a carrot on a stick to do them- as long as they mean something the next patch and there after.
My major problem is this: the so called "casuals" that expect Bliz to just hand them gear because they don't want to do group content.


Yes, because I do not want to play with others in a lfg setting due to how people treat each other nor do I want to hardcore raid anymore, I want stuff handed to me. *rolls eyes*

I choose to do dailys, I do them EVERYDAY, all of them. I am doing content so many others refused to do or whined constantly about, but I never cut those people down. I just did my thing and got my rewards for my content, and they got their rewards for their content.

I see them cry and cry over RNG, NINJAS stole my bike, they refuse to honor MS>OS, and whatever else they want to complain about, and I am still doing my grind, earning my VP and reps and turning those in for some decent gear, not complaining once.

But still I am (seen on the forums) a baddy, learn2play nub, want things handed to me, etc. etc. etc.

Raiders/arena pvpers will always have the best stuff and yet still cut people down who don't raid/arena and god forbid people who get epics, lets call those epics welfare because that shows them that even though it is purple, it is not real epics because they didn't earn them raiding/arena, even though your raiding/arena gear usually looks much cooler and has better stats and are experiencing content casuals will not see.

It is like you begrudge anyone from getting anything unless they raid or arena.

Even casuals need incentive to play, and getting good gear and gear upgrades is part of that. I love having dailys as my end game.

Whatever....
Even casuals need incentive to play, and getting good gear and gear upgrades is part of that. I love having dailys as my end game.


And this is fine. No one is trying to begrudge you of this.

However, when you have a raid currency hooked up into a single player grind, it's an issue. On live, there is no way (other than upgrades) to spend your VP unless you feel like grinding dailies for gear gated behind rep.

People generally see epics as being raid gear because that's how it's always been- thus the huge amounts of complaining about the way rep is being handled thus far. Myself, I see VP gear as a means to bad RNG.

To make everybody happy, maybe they need to have raid rep VP gear directly tied to raids and then a lower ilvl epic quality gear tied to single player stuff (and I swear, if you complain about this later you are proving me right).

The reason the raid VP gear would be a higher level: it's group based content that you are doing a group based activity for. The rewards for doing group based content should always be higher.

The reason why single player content would have a slightly lower ilvl for VP gear (slightly lower than LFR): The "I don't wanna have to step foot into a dungeon/raid" folks would have their means of gear progression without making raiders feel like they MUST grind for that also. Solo based content should never award current raid ilvl gear. I'm sorry but that's just the truth in it. If you want the higher ilvl stuff, then do the danged raid- be it LFR or normal.

There- both parties now have a separate progression path. Neither play style completely infringes on the other.

Also, show me where I have ever insulted someone that wasn't in raid gear just to insult them. I pretty rarely try to do the armory call out unless someone's crying because they have nothing to do.

Heck, if anything I yell at the people that have the "special snowflake" mentality. So, once again, don't classify me into that group, I'm not a part of the "Keep everything away from everybody" crowd. I just have my own idea of what single player and grouping progression should be like.
02/02/2013 11:13 AMPosted by Jujubiju
Even casuals need incentive to play, and getting good gear and gear upgrades is part of that. I love having dailys as my end game.


And this is fine. No one is trying to begrudge you of this.

However, when you have a raid currency hooked up into a single player grind, it's an issue. On live, there is no way (other than upgrades) to spend your VP unless you feel like grinding dailies for gear gated behind rep.

People generally see epics as being raid gear because that's how it's always been- thus the huge amounts of complaining about the way rep is being handled thus far. Myself, I see VP gear as a means to bad RNG.

To make everybody happy, maybe they need to have raid rep VP gear directly tied to raids and then a lower ilvl epic quality gear tied to single player stuff (and I swear, if you complain about this later you are proving me right).

The reason the raid VP gear would be a higher level: it's group based content that you are doing a group based activity for. The rewards for doing group based content should always be higher.

The reason why single player content would have a slightly lower ilvl for VP gear (slightly lower than LFR): The "I don't wanna have to step foot into a dungeon/raid" folks would have their means of gear progression without making raiders feel like they MUST grind for that also. Solo based content should never award current raid ilvl gear. I'm sorry but that's just the truth in it. If you want the higher ilvl stuff, then do the danged raid- be it LFR or normal.

There- both parties now have a separate progression path. Neither play style completely infringes on the other.


LOL! No worries, I won't complain, I even like your idea a lot. I do not like someone getting something for nothing either. I also do not like to be handed items, I like to earn them. I also thought it kinda sucked that VP was tied to single player content also, not really fair to the raiders, like I do not like the fact some of the pvp weapons were tied to pve, sucked for them too.

Only problem I see is that I would have to get different gear if I ever decided to raid, but hey, I guess I would have to do the content that would get me that gear, and that I have no problem with.

I just want people to quit cutting each other down for choice in playstyles. It just adds to the destruction of the community. I will still *Oooh and ahh * over the raiders posing in Stormwind/Orgrimmar.

They earned what they earned with the content they did. I never begrudge them. I was once one of those people, but never once did I give the people inspecting me the feeling that they were peons or somehow less than me.

I have an issue with special snowflakes big time. I kind of used to be one also, until I saw my classic raid gear that was a PITA to get,(RNG for 40 anyone? and having paladin gear in the loot table when you were horde) slowly replaced by BC quest/dungeon greens and blues.

That was a wake up call and I got over it.

I know what I did, the grind I went through to get it, and I am proud of what I have accomplished. I do not compare myself to others nor do I run down others for their playstyles.
02/01/2013 07:58 AMPosted by Shockem
does this include LFR? If not it should!!


It should NOT include LFR since LFR is not raiding.
The rep will most likely be tied to raid-level items and heroic upgrades for those items like in firelands. As such there is no reason for those who have not done the raid on normal to gain rep for this faction.
02/02/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Havïk
does this include LFR? If not it should!!


It should NOT include LFR since LFR is not raiding.
The rep will most likely be tied to raid-level items and heroic upgrades for those items like in firelands. As such there is no reason for those who have not done the raid on normal to gain rep for this faction.


I'm not a raider but I agree with this. Since Blizz however makes LFR equal with raids concerning the rep, I am upset. LFR is just longer heroics with more players. That's all. They already get better gear then heroics.

I have epics and want to point out again that the removal of the upgrade vendors it not the right move since there is no way to spend vp outside from raiding in 5.2. I'm happy if I can upgrade my 489/496 gear even excepting the fact that this might be the best gear I'll see. What makes me angry though is that Blizz treats one portion of casual players (LFR) different from other portions of casual players (questers, dungeoneers). Casual in the sense of non-raiders.

Jub, you can have your raidgear. But why can't I have my valorupgrades.
I always thought btw that gating vp behind rep was the wrong way, no matter what rep.

I also think that there should be ways of progression for every playstyle because lvl is replaced with ilvl in endgame. I never wanted epics just handed to me but I think 200 dailies (which are in some cases not as easy as it is made out in ilvl 440) a week is alot of hours that need to be put in for vp cap. It also takes 5 months to get every piece. And then to sit there with no place to upgrade or spend valor on is a slap in the face from Blizz.

But eh, I refuse to make LFR my endgame. I will enjoy the daily questhub at least one time through maybe more often but without incentives after exalted (talking about vanity items here) I don't see any reason to continue them. That's why TB was such a good questhub. I went back just for the tokens to be able to buy the mounts. I will even eventually go back to boring AT for these.
Anybody tell me that they go back to do repetitive content for the 100th time just for fun?
For fun. That's why I will do them anyways. That's why I still do the 5.0/5.1 dailies with my alts beyond revered. I guess they will have some rewards like MF, just nothing major.

And the story, I want to know how it continues.
02/02/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Havïk
does this include LFR? If not it should!!


It should NOT include LFR since LFR is not raiding.
The rep will most likely be tied to raid-level items and heroic upgrades for those items like in firelands. As such there is no reason for those who have not done the raid on normal to gain rep for this faction.


Does it really matter to you that those 'scrub' players you so loathe are getting rep for a valor reward faction?

How many times do people need to debunk brain dead arguments like the one you make here?
02/02/2013 06:59 PMPosted by Littledeer


It should NOT include LFR since LFR is not raiding.
The rep will most likely be tied to raid-level items and heroic upgrades for those items like in firelands. As such there is no reason for those who have not done the raid on normal to gain rep for this faction.


I'm not a raider but I agree with this. Since Blizz however makes LFR equal with raids concerning the rep, I am upset. LFR is just longer heroics with more players. That's all. They already get better gear then heroics.

I have epics and want to point out again that the removal of the upgrade vendors it not the right move since there is no way to spend vp outside from raiding in 5.2. I'm happy if I can upgrade my 489/496 gear even excepting the fact that this might be the best gear I'll see. What makes me angry though is that Blizz treats one portion of casual players (LFR) different from other portions of casual players (questers, dungeoneers). Casual in the sense of non-raiders.

Jub, you can have your raidgear. But why can't I have my valorupgrades.
I always thought btw that gating vp behind rep was the wrong way, no matter what rep.

I also think that there should be ways of progression for every playstyle because lvl is replaced with ilvl in endgame. I never wanted epics just handed to me but I think 200 dailies (which are in some cases not as easy as it is made out in ilvl 440) a week is alot of hours that need to be put in for vp cap. It also takes 5 months to get every piece. And then to sit there with no place to upgrade or spend valor on is a slap in the face from Blizz.

But eh, I refuse to make LFR my endgame. I will enjoy the daily questhub at least one time through maybe more often but without incentives after exalted (talking about vanity items here) I don't see any reason to continue them. That's why TB was such a good questhub. I went back just for the tokens to be able to buy the mounts. I will even eventually go back to boring AT for these.
Anybody tell me that they go back to do repetitive content for the 100th time just for fun?


This is THE most awesome post I have read in a long time.

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