Why do you insist on ignoring us....

Mage
02/05/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Fateus
Frost Frost Frost! I raided frost in DS, and man I had to do everything right to fight for a middle position on the dps meters.


Was worth it for the change in pace and free world rankings since nobody did it. :)
People fail to understand that with pure DPS classes, there's usually one spec that is typically designed more for PvP. For warlock, that spec appears to be Destruction. For mage, that spec appears to be Frost.

It sucks, but this should be nothing new.
Fires single target should never be on par with arcane as long as it maintains it's superior mobility and three target cleave.

I'm sure players that love the spec purely for playstyle reasons would be thrilled if it was but when you look at it from the grand scheme of things, there would be very little reason to play any other spec since fire would be great at everything, and that's just not healthy for the class as a whole.
People fail to understand that with pure DPS classes, there's usually one spec that is typically designed more for PvP. For warlock, that spec appears to be Destruction. For mage, that spec appears to be Frost.

It sucks, but this should be nothing new.

That's where the problem lies. There shouldn't be one auto win spec. IMO all the specs should be viable in PvE and PvP so players can play what they like.

I'm not insisting that Fire and Frost do the the same damage as Arcane, but right now it's just ridiculous how easily Arcane can out-DPS the two. It's not even remotely close.

People who say "Frost is viable for raiding" are talking out of their !@# or just dont raid themselves. I raid as Frost only because I enjoy it. But all logs on all servers around the world for WoW show Arcane dominating on all fights. It's not like Arcane is narrowly out-dpsing the other specs, it's not even remotely close. Arcane literally puts out millions more in damage.

And it's not like Frost is autowin in PvP against Arcane and Fire. You can PvP as Fire just fine. Frost just has 1 extra root (from pet, which if unglyphed will be off making friends with strangers in PvP) and a slow from the Orb. Nobody spams Frostbolt in PvP. So it's not like it's miles ahead of Fire and Arcane. Arcane has Slow and Fire has Dragon's Breath.

It makes no sense that Frost is not even remotely close to Fire and Arcane in PvE for raiding, and still not extraordinarily better than the other two in PvP.
Were telling you're wrong, and you're insisting you're not. I can switch between specs Fire and Arcane, I'll spend the time enchanting and gemming correctly and their is a big gap in DPS between fire and arcane... any top contending mage can tell you that.

The problem is not raidbots or world of logs, it comes down to the player - and were all telling you that the dps nerf was severe - you continue to babble about internal tracking and raidbots, but obviously its not working.


fire is fine. arcane is fine.
That's where the problem lies. There shouldn't be one auto win spec. IMO all the specs should be viable in PvE and PvP so players can play what they like.

I'm not insisting that Fire and Frost do the the same damage as Arcane, but right now it's just ridiculous how easily Arcane can out-DPS the two. It's not even remotely close.

People who say "Frost is viable for raiding" are talking out of their !@# or just dont raid themselves. I raid as Frost only because I enjoy it. But all logs on all servers around the world for WoW show Arcane dominating on all fights. It's not like Arcane is narrowly out-dpsing the other specs, it's not even remotely close. Arcane literally puts out millions more in damage.

And it's not like Frost is autowin in PvP against Arcane and Fire. You can PvP as Fire just fine. Frost just has 1 extra root (from pet, which if unglyphed will be off making friends with strangers in PvP) and a slow from the Orb. Nobody spams Frostbolt in PvP. So it's not like it's miles ahead of Fire and Arcane. Arcane has Slow and Fire has Dragon's Breath.

It makes no sense that Frost is not even remotely close to Fire and Arcane in PvE for raiding, and still not extraordinarily better than the other two in PvP.
I agree completely, but I think it's much tougher than most people realize to balance across so many different options, levels of gear, etc., while maintaining a distinct flavor for that particular spec.

I've tried a lot of MMOs (many of them free) and believe me, the balance issues in WoW aren't even 1/10th as bad as every other game I've tried. That's why I'm usually a little more forgiving of Blizzard's transgressions.

When one spec clearly sucks at EVERYTHING (especially if it's the one I play) then I get a little snippy because I assume they aren't even trying. I commiserate when what you play has advantages but aren't really useful to the new raid. For example, if you're Fire but there's no need for tons of cleave. Or you're melee and the fights clearly favor ranged... or vice versa. I don't know if I've ever seen a major raid fight where big AoE was a plus... and I really miss the fights like the Argent Tournament where there's virtually no aggro table. I do wish there were more phases like that.
Much of these threads exist because of massively insecure geeks that want to top damage meters and feel that Blizzard is robbing them of their "glory". It's one thing to be a liability to your raid because you're an Arms warrior and do only half as much damage as an Affliction lock... it's another to whine about a 3% difference between two specs of the same class. The gear that drops isn't any better if you kill the boss 44 seconds before the enrage timer or 41 seconds...

Another thing that annoys me is Blizzard balances via "head count". For example, the best way to get your spec buffed... is to not play it. If the percentage of players who play Frost drops from 30% to 10%, that spec is getting buffed. If one talent is getting picked by 90% of all players, it's getting nerfed into the ground. They don't buff the other two, they usually nerf the popular one into the ground so that at least half the players abandon it and thus the "illusion of choice" is maintained.

So when Fire sucks, I just cancel my subscription. Three to six months later, I'm $45-$90 richer and things are usually back on track.
fire doesnt suck as it is now.
02/06/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Beaumagnus
I've tried a lot of MMOs (many of them free) and believe me, the balance issues in WoW aren't even 1/10th as bad as every other game I've tried. That's why I'm usually a little more forgiving of Blizzard's transgressions.

I can agree with you there. It just sucks that Frost doesn't dominate in PvE despite Fire's nerf (makes you wonder how big the difference was pre-Fire nerf) and isn't even the go-to spec for PvP.

We'll see in 5.2 but without Water Jet what good is my pet in boss fights except to stand there and autocast a completely boring waterbolt and nothing else? At that point you think why not just take the pet away, buff any 1 spell to compensate for no waterbolt and give the Freeze to the mage, not the pet?
Well i was arcane all the way then pandaria came out so i switched to fire and man it felt like the days of vanilla when fire was fun again. Then blizzard goes and nerfs fire yet again and makes the most boring of specs the best. I hate arcane its a boring !@# spec.
I am fire but in raids i get raped on dps arcane destroys me and I dont want to go back to re-gemming all my damn gear and redoing it all again and again.

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