Druid tank threat problem?

Druid
Is there a druid tank threat problem?
~ just been tanking heroics not raids (off spec bear btw). Is it my gear, etc or is there a druid tank threat problem?

Thanks
No one I tank with can pull off me single target, however, DK's and monks destroy me in AoE threat.
There isn't a "problem" as in a balance issue. If you're finding that you're having problems holding aggro, consider getting more TPS stats (Hit/Exp).
Different tanks have different threat levels. Monks especially can keg smash, get aggro on everything and once they have aggro, it's really hard to get any of the mobs off of them.

But it's seldom that it matters how you compare in threat to other tanks. On tank swap fights you need to be careful, especially early in the fight. But that applies even with the worst tank vs. the best threat-wise.

If you're having problems holding threat vs. dps and you're doing the pulling, they must heavily outgear you or you're using single target moves when you have packs on you. You only need to do 1/5th their dps on each target to hold threat.

As Arielle pointed out, make sure you have threat stats covered. Hit/Exp caps are good. Since you're not doing raids, you don't even need to get all the way to the 7.5% hit / 15% expertise caps. Luckily it just so happens that if you're not awful at using rage for your SD or FR, those stats are also really good at keeping you alive / making you need less healing. So win win.

Just noticed you have a parry gem. You should probably read up a little more on bears. TheIncBear.com is a good place to start (credit to Arielle and others).
The one problem I have with threat is in AoE situations - swipe doesn't do anything towards my survivability so I only use it minimally. This means that my AoE lead isn't huge. I make up for this by sharing round my mangle, FFF and lacerates but it certainly is a pain particularly running with frost DKs, or fire mages.
Definatly a rotation issue with your threat then. When you're fighting a pack you should be hitting swipe and thrash on cooldown for the most part. Mangle, swipe, thrash, swipe, repeat.
Survivability wise, as long as you're mangling on cooldown, not buggering up your white swings with facing/positioning, and hitting thrash at least once for the damage debuff, you should be good.
02/04/2013 06:32 PMPosted by Feraldar
The one problem I have with threat is in AoE situations - swipe doesn't do anything towards my survivability so I only use it minimally. This means that my AoE lead isn't huge. I make up for this by sharing round my mangle, FFF and lacerates but it certainly is a pain particularly running with frost DKs, or fire mages.


FR, SD and Maul are off the GCD.
Mangle is your primary rage generator, but spends a lot of time on CD
Lacerate on everyone will help you get more mangles, but again - it's on a CD.

That leaves you plenty of time to thrash and swipe. Getting lacerate up on everyone is only a very minor survivability improvement, and in a multi target situation, FFF would be bottom of your list, even if it didn't reset your swing timer.
02/04/2013 08:01 PMPosted by Jashiliter
Lacerate on everyone will help you get more mangles, but again - it's on a CD.
No it won't. Mangle only procs on impact, and you don't want to use Lacerate in AoE situations because of threat issues.
02/04/2013 06:32 PMPosted by Feraldar
The one problem I have with threat is in AoE situations - swipe doesn't do anything towards my survivability so I only use it minimally. This means that my AoE lead isn't huge. I make up for this by sharing round my mangle, FFF and lacerates but it certainly is a pain particularly running with frost DKs, or fire mages.

You didn't mention thrash. I assume you're using it?

If you're having trouble holding mobs off other players, your survival isn't as much as issue as threat. Mangle, Swipe, Thrash, Swipe, repeat. Use rage on SD (FR if low health) which is outside the rotation. Get exp/hit up so you're not missing mobs. If it's a big pull where you're worried about living so much that you're worried about using swipe, make sure you are doing everything you can to stay alive:

- Barkskin, SI and Ursoc (usually staggered rather than all at once)
- Instant heal (renewal or nature's swiftness)
- Berserk for massive rage via triple berserks or incarnation for mangle or thrash spam. Nature's vigil too if that's your thing.
- Might bash and/or bear hug.
- Typhoon and/or disorienting roar (especially vs. casters)
- Health pot.
- Or, if you're still dying to that same pull (doubtful), there's always CC.

If you're using all your tools, living through the pull shouldn't be so scary that you're worried about swipe vs. min/maxing rage. Keep mobs on you with AE threat and use all of your other tools to stay alive.
I tank with a DK tank. I was having trouble with aggro when we started raiding. The article on Icyveins gave advice on stats. I was surprised. It was so different than what I was used to since way back when. I tried it, and it worked. I suggest readjusting your stats. You're high on hit and not enough on crit. Good luck!
02/04/2013 10:36 PMPosted by Tappin
The one problem I have with threat is in AoE situations - swipe doesn't do anything towards my survivability so I only use it minimally. This means that my AoE lead isn't huge. I make up for this by sharing round my mangle, FFF and lacerates but it certainly is a pain particularly running with frost DKs, or fire mages.

You didn't mention thrash. I assume you're using it?

If you're having trouble holding mobs off other players, your survival isn't as much as issue as threat. Mangle, Swipe, Thrash, Swipe, repeat. Use rage on SD (FR if low health) which is outside the rotation. Get exp/hit up so you're not missing mobs. If it's a big pull where you're worried about living so much that you're worried about using swipe, make sure you are doing everything you can to stay alive:


Yes I do use thrash :)

It's more a theoretical problem - not an actual survivability problem - it is like the discussions around maul before 5.1 - swipe does not add anything to your survivability because it doesn't have a chance of resetting mangle and therefore doesn't generate rage. So I basically maintain my single target rotation (so using thrash to keep up the bleed/debuff) and spreading around FFF and lacerates to proc the mangle reset. Most the time I catch mobs before I actually lose threat (thanks to vigilantly watching tidy plates). I kind of miss that multi-mob tanking from bear tanking in early Cataclysm. That is only for the ~3-6 mob groups - bigger sets of mobs and I'll use swipe liberally.

Mind you in hind-sight most tanks have some sort of trade-off to using their AoE threat abilities and making use of their AM abilities so I really shouldn't be quite so annoyed by it :)
02/04/2013 08:07 PMPosted by Arielle
No it won't. Mangle only procs on impact, and you don't want to use Lacerate in AoE situations because of threat issues.


Ah, I misremembered it as proccing on bleed ticks too.
single target we're amazing, I can literally rip threat from our dk, however aoe situations we're not as good.
Bear's aggro is garbage, doesn't come close to any other tank. I won't even run mine any more becuse ppl bit ch so much about it.
01/09/2016 08:35 AMPosted by Ellfy
Bear's aggro is garbage

It's not

01/09/2016 08:35 AMPosted by Ellfy
doesn't come close to any other tank

It does

01/09/2016 08:35 AMPosted by Ellfy
I won't even run mine any more becuse ppl bit ch so much about it

You're bad

And this is necro.

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