Meanwhile in South Korea...

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It's pretty ironic how "great" elitist players think they are, and yet some are incapable of being so "above average" that they can help someone not as great as they are.

“The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges.” — Martin Luther King Jr.
It's 2004 and I just hit level 60. I decide that I want to do my first real dungeon. A group is shouting that they are looking for a "tank" in Org general chat. As a Warrior, I felt quite strong, and quite tankish if I might add, especially with this big new two-handed axe I just got! I accept their offer to be their tank and I'm ready to impress some people with my new-found role.

I roll in there, 2-handed axe flying about, dying left and right, not holding any aggro whatsoever, and I'm finally asked what the hell I was doing and whether or not I had a sword and shield. The group organizer quietly took me aside and explained the whole tank/healer/dps lingo. Fast forward to the present: I've been playing WoW since release in November 2004, and I've seen my share of elitists and noobs alike. I've coached players and friends who were getting their first character maxed, and I've coached people who have been playing for years. I wont say I'm the best player in the world, but I certainly do see that in WoW it is extremely hard for newer players to break into the big leagues, so to speak, without at least some proper guidance. This is a great issue that's being addressed, I definitely think that some incentive for older players like me to coach newer players should be added to the game. That's a tricky thing to think about from a developers point of view, but I'm sure Blizzard will figure something out, they always do (eventually).
I saw a thread about a player who was trying to get a quest for the legendary quest done.

I had already finished it, but realized why not play the game a bit and help some other players out so when I saw a group forming I joined them and helped them down it.

I must admit I do not do that often enough.
A little follow up to my previous post.

When thinking about it I have come to realize that noobs come in two breeds. The first is the innocent noob who doesn't know what they're doing, but is friendly and willing to learn. These are people who need a gentle hand to guide them in the right direction. I remember one Warrior I took under my wing back in the ToGC days and he went on to be a main core raider in a decent guild in ICC. He was nice, friendly, and willing to learn.

Then there are the noobs who are offensive, defensive, and full of pride. Nobody can work with these people.

That being said, if you are in a situation where you want to get better, be polite, and if the person isn't a terrible elitist, then they will reciprocate that politeness at the very least.
This is so relavent. The best part of WoW is having fun with your friends. I almost had more fun when I was playing my first level 30 hunter, using a melee weapon instead of my bow than I do sometimes now as one of the top raiders on my server. People were kind to me when I started playing and made an actual difference in my life outside of WoW. I try to remember to do the same.
Right in the feels.

This thread is truth. I've been doing this for the 5+ years I've been playing this game. I've never turned anyone down who wanted to learn to be better. I've probably helped out 50 hunters, and a handful of guardian/feral druids. I love doing it. It makes it such a better experience for them and the community as a whole.

We also had a similar story on my old server Fizzcrank. There was a Tank who was infamous for goin afk in raids, having to take 15 minute breaks every 20 minutes, pulling without the whole group being ready. This was sooo sooo frustrating in Wrath when you really had to work to put groups together still. I hated him and I didn't even know him. I would get into raids and see his name and just cringe. He would go and do all the things mentioned above, and even break some groups up which was even worse.

So, after hating him so much, hearing others feeling the same way, my humanity whispered to me: "Everyone hates this guy.....Maybe I should just take a chance to get to know him?" So, one day I /lick him in the Auction House. An unconventional way to start a conversation, yes lol, but it was the start of a now 4 year relationship I have had with him.

He became the most amazing person I can say I've ever hated. He has grown so much as a tank and a person. I could not imagine playing WoW without him now :)!

We too often forget that there are real people behind our avatars. It is so easy to lose your humanity when talking to others in this game, especially when you're frustrated. WE are not just our Avatars in-game. There is a human there, and what you do affects them. Treat them with the same respect you would in real life. You never know what greatness may come of it :3!
02/07/2013 07:09 PMPosted by Ntaki
That hit me right in the feels.
A little follow up to my previous post.

When thinking about it I have come to realize that noobs come in two breeds. The first is the innocent noob who doesn't know what they're doing, but is friendly and willing to learn. These are people who need a gentle hand to guide them in the right direction. I remember one Warrior I took under my wing back in the ToGC days and he went on to be a main core raider in a decent guild in ICC. He was nice, friendly, and willing to learn.

Then there are the noobs who are offensive, defensive, and full of pride. Nobody can work with these people.

That being said, if you are in a situation where you want to get better, be polite, and if the person isn't a terrible elitist, then they will reciprocate that politeness at the very least.


There are noobs, and there are newbs. Your first description is a newb :)
New players can be molded into great players...because for every single hardcore player in Method or back in the days of nihilum were new players.

New to WoW or new to MMOs in general when many of them played Everquest.
All of them started as level 1 wondering what the hell was over that hill over there.

Then there are those who just relish being bad players...nothing can be done with them.
02/07/2013 07:09 PMPosted by Ntaki
That hit me right in the feels.


Same here dude. Right in the feels.
I am in the US, but because my work lends itself to playing during what are the morning hours (for me) I have been a member of an Oceanic guild that operates on a US realm.

We have always been a semi-casual guild. Composed of members from Korea, Singapore, the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Australia, when we raided it was always a matter of communicating in English, and only by typing in text. In part because of these challenges, at most we were realm top 10 (25-man) but we still have a lot of fun.

For many of us, teamwork has always been an interesting exercise in understanding that not only language barriers but also different cultures affect how the game is played. For example, we found it very easy to embrace GDKP when it came to Lightbringer because so many of our members knew that as the primary loot method.

Your post has given me further insight as to why some of our Korean members choose to play where they do. Thank you for sharing that, Coreanshammy.
OP's post reminds me of when I started playing WoW. There are so many complicated things to keep in mind while playing this game, it is intimidating to a new player. I'm very fortunate that my Guild, Benevolent Thuggery on Dragonblight (benethugs.org), was and still is, a very tolerant and encouraging guild.

My guildmates, and especially our guild leader at the time, would respond to requests for assistance as OP did so talent specs, gemming, and gear could be handled. They coached me on situational awareness and how to move in fights. During raids, we would always go over strategy before every fight and make sure each raid member knew what was happening at what time. Our raid leadership is very helpful because we want our newer members to succeed and also recognize that some work and learning is involved.

People join and leave guilds because the other players are jerks or too elitist. The reason I've stayed with Benevolent Thuggery is because of the guidance and encouragement. I will never be a world or server-ranked player but I do want to improve my skills and the guidance from understanding and encouraging players is crucial to that goal. The game is fun for me and I want to keep it that way. The secret of WoW is that it can accommodate both casual and serious players for raiding, PvP, story lines, and achievement hunters.

We're all elitist to some degree. We have our own opinions of players. How we treat each other and how we are treated by each other is going to affect membership in guilds and the game itself. We should not be pompous snobs to other players. Yet we all do it from time to time and we need to correct our behavior to keep the community of WoW vibrant and growing.
From random strangers in LFG/LFR to new folks on the server, I am always willing to help new people and so is my guild. Gear runs, crafting, teaching mechanics, you name it and we help.

Perhaps that's why I have never quite shared in the lost sense of community so many write about here on the forums.

I would rather my guild be a pleasant group of folks helping each other out than to be world first at anything. If any of my members threatened to quit over me inviting someone that just needed help, I'd gkick them before they had the chance to quit.
Wow! That almost made me cry. I think sometimes as humans we need to realize that even on the internet what we say to people affects them and can have grave results.

It almost makes me think how far humans go just because a person isn't up to their standards.

I am an elementary school teacher so this really hits home.

We're all elitist to some degree. We have our own opinions of players. How we treat each other and how we are treated by each other is going to affect membership in guilds and the game itself. We should not be pompous snobs to other players. Yet we all do it from time to time and we need to correct our behavior to keep the community of WoW vibrant and growing.


No, we don't all do it. That's something people tell themselves to rationalize how they've treated people.

Our guild lost our second raid tank due to family issues. One of our healers leveled his pally to step in since it has always been easier for us to pug a healer than a tank. I wanted to level my DK and my wife wanted to level her boomkin so we raised them all together.

We got into a dungeon and it became immediately apparent that the healer was struggling. We check his gear and sure enough, he had on PvP gear. We asked him why he was healing in PvP gear and he said it was because it was easier to get and since he didn't have much time to play, he did that since it was as good as the other gear.

We had to explain to him why PvP gear meant for a ret pallly didn't help him heal a PvE instance and then go on to explain spirit and int and why he needed those over the agi ring he was wearing.

It wasn't really an issue until the second boss where we wiped twice.

We didn't kick him. My wife switched to her resto off spec and helped heal while i switched to blood and offtanked. We opened the gbank and grabbed flasks and feasts and we got through the run. And we sincerely cheered the poor healer when he won 2 new healing pieces.

More often than not, the community is what you make of it. Me? I do my best not to ever have to justify my actions with the poor behavior of others.
More often than not, the community is what you make of it. Me? I do my best not to ever have to justify my actions with the poor behavior of others.


This, more than anything else, rings true in my mind.
I know I'm not a great player. Not really a very good player, in that I have never seen end content when it was relevant. But I DO like to think I am a decent player, and a kind person.
When I realized my lock's skinning was too low for the area I was questing in, I went to Elwyn and started killing the bears and wolves near the logging camp. I began seeing skinnable corpses around when I noticed a CRZ hunter was doing the quest(s) to kill them. I sent a tell "Mind if I skin your kills?"

"What does skin mean?"

Tbh I was a somewhat taken aback by the question. Long story short, even though I really wanted to level my skinning that day, I spent a good 90 minutes or so explaining professions, stats, rotations and such to them, and I really had fun doing it. Skins can always be had...friends not so easily
How touching :') I remember being one of those people who would have bullied him, I would have said mean things about him to others so others wouldn't play with him either... I also remember being like the OP (not quite as far as he went though) and given him a chance, and tried to help. I don't play much anymore, but just seeing someone who asks for help, I try to do what I can for them. Once you've played long enough, done almost everything there is to do, nothing is more fun or enjoyable than helping someone else out in a meaningful way. =)

I wish that everyone would read this story and take something from it. Thank you very much for sharing it with us. :)
because koreans treat gaming as their jobs instead of having FUN
02/07/2013 09:50 PMPosted by Tedfast
I always read "Meanwhile..." headers in the Superfriends narrator voice in my head.

hahahaha! I do too! Meanwhile back at Justice League headquarters...
This might sound bad but... at least it seems like Korea has a passionate/tightknit server community. I mean being infamous on a server, so quaint. I don't even recognize anyone outside my guild and 2 other people. I miss the olden days on US servers where friends > time spent in game.
Anyhow, I feel for that guy I have been the subject of a bit of bullying and one time everyone thought I was gay in RL, that was weird. Everything turned out okay in the end.

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