Warrior Stances

General Discussion
This is a post from arenajunkies.com that i think is a very good idea and i would like to show it to the devs. None of these ideas are my own and are all from Nereos and EU warrior.

I haven't tried warrior at PTR but it's quite easy as a warrior to tell that with the current 5.2 changes, the class won't really be that fun to play due to rage starvation in def stance with the overpower rage cost. Of course def stance is stupid on live, but with the current 5.2 changes, every single team will just train the warrior 100% of the game because we really won't do any damage in def stance, and we are way too squishy in battle/berserker stance. However, I recently came up with a pretty decent idea of how to make us stance dance more and in my mind, it would make warriors quite fun to play, and probably not too overpowered nor !@#$.. Here's the idea:

Battle stance: keep it as it is on live (generating 12 rage per auto attack, 0% damage reduction). Used when we are not the trained targed

Defensive stance: 15-20% damage reduction, 1 rage every 3 sec. Used when we are trained hard, resulting in good damage reduction but %^-*ty damage

Berserker stance: should work the way it does on live (generating 6 rage per auto attack and 1 rage per % health loss) but added a 5-10% damage reduction. Used when we are trained but not too hard - resulting in decent rage generation when we are being trained so we can still do decent damage but we won't be as squishy as in battle stance

To me, this actually seems like a pretty natural way of fixing the stances. Is one of your partners being trained? Go battle stance for good rage generation and more damage. Are you being trained hard and need to go defensive? Go defensive stance to take less damage, but you won't really do that much damage. Are you being trained but you feel like you don't need all the damage reduction from defensive stance and still want to keep pressure up? Go berserker stance so you take abit less damage but can still do good damage

It kinda makes sense when you think of it.. You are basically forced to stance dance with this system - you adapt your stance to what happens.
The current 5.2 idea is to either go battle stance and do damage at the cost of taking !@#$load of damage - or go def stance and do no damage with damage reduction. There is nothing inbetween and it's not a good way to fix warriors.. It just makes it really clear for every team to train the warrior 100% of the game since he would do no damage.

Edit-
I think this could really solve the no stance dancing warrior and also solve the problem between going D and doing nothing or going super offensive and risk falling over and killing ur self.
Really, I don't get why Berserker and Battle Stance aren't switched. Battle Stance says "A BALANCED Combat Stance" and Berserker says "An AGGRESIVE Combat Stance". It would make more sense for Battle to generate Rage from both attacks and taking damage, while Berserker generates more rage from attacks, but none from taking damage.
The problem with stances, imo, was the fact that prior to the changes, warriors were one of the most heavily macro reliant classes in the game.

Some might argue this is a good thing and you might be right, however I'd counter with the argument that it added a FALSE sense of complexity to the class that wasn't neccesary.

Honestly, I think the warrior class would be MUCH better served by simply incorporating the stances into the actual specs as permanent auras though I realize this would require a TON of effort to balance and adjust around.
Stances were intended to be something you settle into, not something you switch on a whim.
The problem with stances, imo, was the fact that prior to the changes, warriors were one of the most heavily macro reliant classes in the game.

Some might argue this is a good thing and you might be right, however I'd counter with the argument that it added a FALSE sense of complexity to the class that wasn't neccesary.

Honestly, I think the warrior class would be MUCH better served by simply incorporating the stances into the actual specs as permanent auras though I realize this would require a TON of effort to balance and adjust around.


My warrior misses her macros...
02/07/2013 04:47 PMPosted by Doomclan
Really, I don't get why Berserker and Battle Stance aren't switched. Battle Stance says "A BALANCED Combat Stance" and Berserker says "An AGGRESIVE Combat Stance". It would make more sense for Battle to generate Rage from both attacks and taking damage, while Berserker generates more rage from attacks, but none from taking damage.
02/07/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Enekie
Stances were intended to be something you settle into, not something you switch on a whim.

And yet they removed the rage dump from changing stances.

I really haven't read the 5.2 patch notes for warriors yet, but I suspect I'll end up back in Fury for PvP.

Arms just feels lacking to me.
02/07/2013 04:47 PMPosted by Doomclan
Really, I don't get why Berserker and Battle Stance aren't switched. Battle Stance says "A BALANCED Combat Stance" and Berserker says "An AGGRESIVE Combat Stance". It would make more sense for Battle to generate Rage from both attacks and taking damage, while Berserker generates more rage from attacks, but none from taking damage.

this so much
Main problem I have is that Berserker Stance, by it's very name, should be the heavy DPS with less defense stance. Battle should be the middle of the road stance, and obviously Defensive Stance should be the, well, defensive stance.
More from Nereos-

On topic, I would say these changes would be completely fair together with the overpower cost nerf.. On live you can stay in def stance all day without any penalty from it, since overpower costs 0 rage and that lets us build rage for other things. With these changes, you would be punished for staying in one stance for a long time.

What a lot of people seem to forget (or aren't aware of) is that the warrior rage/stance system differs very much from earlier expansions. The only things that cost rage now are heroic strike, slam, thunder clap, hamstring/piercing howl and sweeping strikes (+overpower in 5.2) BUT we don't gain rage the way we did before and we are very dependant on rage to do damage. If a team trains a warrior with the 5.2 changes, he will be forced to stay in def stance all game or he will die, but he won't gain any rage from hitting or being hit. This system is very clunky because the only way to get rage is by using mortal strike(gives 10 rage) to then use it for one overpower(costs 10 rage) and then we are back at 0 rage. Yeah, we can charge/battle shout but that would give us 2 overpowers every 12sec/1min - then back to mortal strike -> overpower -> 0 rage repeat.

Even with these changes warriors won't be as good as they are on live, since we won't have constant 25% damage reduction and good rage regen in def stance. I think a 20% dmg reduce on def stance would be fair with these changes since we won't be doing any damage due to overpower cost - so it will differ a lot from live. Berserker stance would be a stable all-around stance which would let us keep dealing alright damage with a lower damage reduce - prevents us from being as squishy as battle stance but not as tanky as in def stance. Battle stance would be a good damage stance but might be abit risky to stay in for too long considering a sudden stun would probably be the end of us without damage reduce.

Would really like to see some constructive feedback on this

Also everyone can go to http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/236056-how-to-fix-warrior-stances/ to read the original thread.

Plz keep up the feedback, the more we get the better chances of something happening :D
shamelessly bumping this.

plz leave thoughts and opinions on this.

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