Outlands...Forgotten?

General Discussion
Given the "timeline" conflicts that now occur when leveling a new toon through all this very old content, I would have to propose that something more than a "makeover" would be necessary. I would suggest taking a few (2-3) of the Azeroth zones that contain the same level challenges and amp them up to Outland level, eliminate Outland altogether (in essence close/destroy the Dark Portal -- at least for now) and use all the saved data space for all new stuff -- shut down access to Northrend somehow (saving it for another complete future rewrite) and move on to all newer stuff elsewhere (Azeroth or otherwise).

All old gear, mounts, achieves only available in those areas, etc., would become FOS so those who have done them can commemorate participation, but let them go by the wayside like the pre-Cata Azeroth did. Recipes, patterns, el al, would be either removed (simplifying prof leveling), moved to the new amped up Azeroth zones, whatever. There are a number of changes that would occur, most of them long-range beneficial to everyone.

Not only would it "spring clean" all that old content it would provide opportunity for all new stuff without necessitating too much in the way of additional resource creation for Blizz.

Both sides win.


I don't see a benefit to destroying the time-line and completely changing all the established lore by removing major content like that. The things you are proposing happened in Azeroth's past, according to the current timeline, and a character levels up through that timeline to experience all those stories. It's already very easy to level through those zones by completely skipping entire maps.

I don't see a benefit to destroying the time-line and completely changing all the established lore by removing major content like that. The things you are proposing happened in Azeroth's past, according to the current timeline, and a character levels up through that timeline to experience all those stories. It's already very easy to level through those zones by completely skipping entire maps.

"In Azeroth's past"... precisely part of my point.

I wasn't talking about destroying the timeline itself. I was talking about doing away with the necessity of having to do those areas any more because it's so far in the past (relatively speaking) that it causes major timeline/lore conflicts.

Example: Pandaren cannot be Deathknights because they were segregated in their "Mists" while that bit of lore was occurring. But if I want to level a Pandaren toon, I have to run it through all the Outland and Wrath content, making for major Paradox. All those events should have had some sort of resolution by now and can be "closed out". Why should a Pandaren be even allowed, say, to get the "Veteran of the Wrathgate" achievement? They aren't part of the Outland or Wrath storyline in any sense. But yet they're literalyl being "forced" through storyline/lore that was "before their time."

This kind of lore conflict (there are others) makes for a non-sensical leveling experience (at best) and quickly approaches the depressingly ludicrous. So many things changed (in Azeroth at least) with Cata, why not include Outland and the Wrath in a "spring clean" of outdated and conflict causing content?

Clean it up. Rewrite and let the past stay in the past. It would open up huge possibilities for the future, which is what the point of the game is about, now and what's to come, not what was.
To fix the timeline issue, there are much better solutions than simply deleting a large chunk of the game. Just take a random NPC, call them Bronze Dragonflight, and when you get to 58, you get a quest to talk to him, he tells you you're needed in the past, blah blah blah, and he sends you on the usual 'go to outland' quest. Same thing at 68 for Northrend, put an NPC at the boat or zeppelin.
i was in shatt the other day and there is someone there with a yellow ! by the big ahnk or whoever and i know he wasnt there before. i had pretty much done every quest.
i didnt take the quest but does anyone know what this is about ?


Lunar Festival breadcrumb?
i was in shatt the other day and there is someone there with a yellow ! by the big ahnk or whoever and i know he wasnt there before. i had pretty much done every quest.
i didnt take the quest but does anyone know what this is about ?


Lunar Festival breadcrumb?


Lunar festival doesnt happen in Outlands. Our Elders arent there :p Though you'd think they would have put some Draenei and Orc elders up there somewhere.
02/08/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Sandse
To fix the timeline issue, there are much better solutions than simply deleting a large chunk of the game. Just take a random NPC, call them Bronze Dragonflight, and when you get to 58, you get a quest to talk to him, he tells you you're needed in the past, blah blah blah, and he sends you on the usual 'go to outland' quest. Same thing at 68 for Northrend, put an NPC at the boat or zeppelin.

Again I invoke the concept of Paradox. At the risk of seeming to approach this from an overly-RP angle, the characters experiencing these events when the xpacs were new did not meet any characters from the future who came back to the past to "help" in a conflict that was essentially resolved before they ever came back to "help". Having characters suddenly doing that causes gross Paradox and muddles the verisimilitude of everything all to hell and gone.

New players coming into the game are getting such confusing messages it's a wonder any of them continue to play. Give them and everyone else a break by eliminating the problem.

I don't necessarily disagree with the OP's point. A rewrite would work well, both for Outland and Northrend. I'm just proposing taking it to the next level and clearing them out completely and replacing them with all new stuff.

If you don't agree, fine. We all have our druthers. I'm just going for what I feel is a longer term fix than a mere revamp would provide.

To each their own.
02/08/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Sandse
To fix the timeline issue, there are much better solutions than simply deleting a large chunk of the game. Just take a random NPC, call them Bronze Dragonflight, and when you get to 58, you get a quest to talk to him, he tells you you're needed in the past, blah blah blah, and he sends you on the usual 'go to outland' quest. Same thing at 68 for Northrend, put an NPC at the boat or zeppelin.


That would work, but removing all that content would be a terrible idea. It would be as if Arthas never came to power and merged with the Lich King, essentially. It does make for awkward storytelling for a Pandaren to go to Outland and Northrend I suppose, but removing all that important content is not the answer. Those are major chunks of WoW's continuing storyline.
02/08/2013 09:15 AMPosted by Aberzombie
New players coming into the game are getting such confusing messages it's a wonder any of them continue to play. Give them and everyone else a break by eliminating the problem.


This is a really weak argument, just saying. As a new player when I came in (after Cata), knowing that I was paying money for classic WoW that I wasnt getting kind of annoyed me. Completely getting rid of Outland and Northrend would do the same thing. I know a lot of people would be quite pissed off to know they had to pay a bunch of money for expansions that dont even exist.

And I get the RP angle, trust me. I love lore and I RP myself. But sometimes game mechanics have to take over. Getting rid of two very large chunks of the game wouldnt work. And how would a rewrite work? We've taken care of all the problems in those zones. If you rewrite them, Outlands becomes a couple of floating barren rocks, and Northrend is just a scenic ski chateau.
What I do to solve the RP issue is to stop RP'ing when I am leveling. I just "go to work" essentially and get the leveling done, then I RP later with my friends and guild-mates.

For example, at level 10 or so a new Forsaken (or any Horde character) can go to Forsaken High Command and hear all about how the Lich King is dead and Sylvanas has taken over command of the undead AND the Val'kyr. Then you get to level 68 and are shipped off to ... Northrend, to fight the scourge and the Lich King.

How do I resolve this? I basically turn off "RP" so to speak while in those zones, then when I get back, I simply say "I've been in Northrend combating the Scourge remnants that still cling to the area."

Yes, a lot of stuff in the game creates "paradox" but people have the ability to allow it to bother them or not. Use your own mind and imagination to resolve it for yourself. Removing two entire zones would be a terrible idea. People have to pay for these expansions, removing the content would leave only Classic and MoP more or less intact.
I go their from time to time and lay waste to the demons. :)
02/08/2013 09:07 AMPosted by Qualanthar
Lunar Festival breadcrumb?

yes def not lunar related. i wish i paid more attention to it but its new. ill find out tonight.
Ok, so I'm heavily out-opinioned on the "scrub it clean" idea... so let's focus some on "rewrite" or "overhaul" like was done to Azeroth for Cata.

First let's deal with Outland (the first step after Azeroth)... What sort of changes might it entail, what sort of "resolutions" have occurred in the interim that might still relieve some of the paradox problem I've mentioned, and yet keep the essential Outland "intact". In other words, what changes might occur? In Hellfire Peninsula, what would be different... NPC, story/quest functions, etc. How would it be different. In Zangermarsh, has that dry lake been fixed? Has the Cenarian Expedition finished their work? In Terokkar, has the death of the Skettis' big leader finally beaten them into submission? What's kind of rewrite is being suggested?

:)

A lot of old world recipes are gone, such as the Enchanted Thorium set.


<-- Thankfully I got my legs/chest from an old BS friend before he quit. =)
And I agree with the sentiment of the rest of your post as well.
I'll be there very soon on this alt. So, for 10 levels or so, it will get some attention from me. lol
(frowns at pet hate)

Outland is singular.
There is only one.

It's out of my system now, carry on. :P


I am with you, this bugs the freaking heck out of me.

OP, we defeated Kiljadaen, Outland legions defeated. Next stop, whatever Wrathion has for us.
I hope they do not do it, It is my favorite set of zones, they couldnt even do the old world good when they revamped it.
Ok, so I'm heavily out-opinioned on the "scrub it clean" idea... so let's focus some on "rewrite" or "overhaul" like was done to Azeroth for Cata.

First let's deal with Outland (the first step after Azeroth)... What sort of changes might it entail, what sort of "resolutions" have occurred in the interim that might still relieve some of the paradox problem I've mentioned, and yet keep the essential Outland "intact". In other words, what changes might occur? In Hellfire Peninsula, what would be different... NPC, story/quest functions, etc. How would it be different. In Zangermarsh, has that dry lake been fixed? Has the Cenarian Expedition finished their work? In Terokkar, has the death of the Skettis' big leader finally beaten them into submission? What's kind of rewrite is being suggested?

:)


I have absolutely nothing against touching up those areas and improving upon the questing experience, and possibly even fixing the gaps in lore. I think that would be fantastic. But I have learned to accept the experience for what it is. Maybe the fact that I've played only going on two years is a factor. I wasn't here when it was all shiny and new, which I regret.
I always look forward to Outland when leveling. I like the zones and the lore is excellent. I can't wait for there to be more added to it. Don't update it, just add to it. Turalyon and Alleria need to come back already.
02/08/2013 10:50 AMPosted by Nokrigar
Northrend>Outlands


YES, I soooo look forward to getting through Outland so I can go kill zombies and whatnot. The questlines are far more engaging and immersive to me. I get so sick of all the Ogre quests... go kill ten ogres.... now go kill ten ogres... now go kill ten ogres.... ugh.

Does anyone else think of the movie Avatar when they go through Zangarmarsh?

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