So Shadow healing is too strong yet Ret

Arenas
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I remember when ret pallys had to equip a healing mace when they wanted to do any decent healing... and now they hae 189k instant heals.
Yea sooooo, Ret doesn't have 300k mana, and we can't spam Flash of Light like Spriest.

You got nerfed

It was needed

/thread
Rets trying to justify this hahahaha
02/09/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Kitteykat
doesnt purge and priest offenisive single target dispel not hav a CD and is spammable?


And then there's Mass Dispel, that can both offensively and defensively dispel everything every 15secs, so long as the priest doesn't have downs and can land the reticle on a couple targets.

How long did they say it took to stack SH? 18sec? Looks like you have a 3 second window to completely negate any defensive progress a ret ever makes.

You can keep to your argument 'My class cant heal for 150k instantly, so theirs is OP' but I ask you to consider the maximum amount of healing a ret could pump out in 20sec (the standard duration of most dps CDs) versus how much a Spriest could.

You'll see that, in that light, Rets are not imbalanced.

I'm sure their class deserves more nerfs than yours, though.

Edit:
02/09/2013 12:08 PMPosted by Coontlipsx
actually he said 200k+


So you're saying he's seeing Battle Fatigued FoL's crit anywhere from 140k to infinity and beyond?

Yeah, your logic is fantastic.

Most people pick the nicest number around their pool of results. For example, if you where consistently seeing 180k crits, you wouldn't say 100k+ crits, you would say 175k+ crits.

Unless the OP is an imbecile, and doesn't understand how relative accuracy works.

But you don't just throw numbers for the sake of establishing an opinional numeric base-structure. Thats just ridiculous.
I'm pretty much OK with ret being a really good off-healer. Their niche has always been a support + burst role. Their support abilities are somewhat lacking now, so maybe improving their healing is the way to bring them up to par. I think 200k heals is a bit high, but that's easily tunable.
02/09/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Chiffley
Rets trying to justify this hahahaha


What do you guys not get. Rets in 5.1 are gimped. They can do one Flash of Light per mana pool of like 60k and it heals for 30k. Get a life trolls.
Yea sooooo, Ret doesn't have 300k mana, and we can't spam Flash of Light like Spriest.

You got nerfed

It was needed

/thread


well if i recall selfless reduces the mana cost

and srsly 180k with all CDs POPPED or not? cuz rets can do this back in cata too.

if 180k is normally in 5.2 than with all cds popped expect 300k heals
02/09/2013 11:04 AMPosted by Mvp
lol even with battle fatigue back you can crit 170k flash of lights. It's ridiculously over-the-top.
140k. Learn math.

Secondly, Ret was always meant to have massive heals. We have hilariously tiny mana pools, so we can't just spam Flash of Light. Spriests can spam Flash Heal though. Having high heals is a part of Ret's fundamental base support and defense system. It makes up for our hilarious lack of damage outside of CDs, compared to other classes. Divine Purpose procs are the only way we can get an "okay" damage outside of CDs, but getting DP nerfs our burst dramatically.


Your mana pool as Ret is No smaller then that of an enahnc eshammy or feral druid. Ne=ither of which are healin gin that ball park. So where do you come off thinking as a ret the person is entitled to have heals that strong? You have more defensives then an enahnce shammy, you have mor eCC then an enhanc eshammy, you have a better gap maker/closer. So I would say there is not a reason in the world to think ret should have those heals because they have a small mana pool.
f 180k is normally in 5.2 than with all cds popped expect 300k heals


Name a dps class than cannot do 300k+ damage in ~20 seconds and I'll call you a liar.

If you find rets using all of their CDs for the sake of healing, you've probably already won the battle anyways because they will have the offensive pressure of a BM hunter with no pet for the next ~3 minutes.

02/09/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Lissbanka
No smaller then that of an enahnc eshammy or feral druid. Ne=ither of which are healin gin that ball park.


This is not true.
With 'Dream of Cenarious' end-talent my feral gets 140k+ Healing Touch crits every ~10 seconds.

This is on live.

However, you hardly ever see any ferals speccing Dream of Cenarius in the first place, because nobody cares if you can heal for that much if you cant kill the target.
02/09/2013 12:25 PMPosted by Mindboggler
Rets trying to justify this hahahaha


What do you guys not get. Rets in 5.1 are gimped. They can do one Flash of Light per mana pool of like 60k and it heals for 30k. Get a life trolls.


"Disagreeing with me means you're trolling"

No.
02/09/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Azlem
f 180k is normally in 5.2 than with all cds popped expect 300k heals


Name a dps class than cannot do 300k+ damage in ~20 seconds and I'll call you a liar.

If you find rets using all of their CDs for the sake of healing, you've probably already won the battle anyways because they will have the offensive pressure of a BM hunter with no pet for the next ~3 minutes.


they can burst while they heal. its not like flash of light triggers a massive cooldown on all your melee moves
02/09/2013 12:25 PMPosted by Mindboggler
Rets trying to justify this hahahaha


What do you guys not get. Rets in 5.1 are gimped. They can do one Flash of Light per mana pool of like 60k and it heals for 30k. Get a life trolls.


It is no different then enhance shammies except they have defensives, more CC they do not hav eto stack Holy power to 5 chargs to get a decent no cast heal. They do not require a glyph slot so the heal will heal for more then 17k for 21k mana. Do not give me the different classes ar different !@#$ as it does not hold any weight.
02/09/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Azlem
f 180k is normally in 5.2 than with all cds popped expect 300k heals


Name a dps class than cannot do 300k+ damage in ~20 seconds and I'll call you a liar.

If you find rets using all of their CDs for the sake of healing, you've probably already won the battle anyways because they will have the offensive pressure of a BM hunter with no pet for the next ~3 minutes.

02/09/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Lissbanka
No smaller then that of an enahnc eshammy or feral druid. Ne=ither of which are healin gin that ball park.


This is not true.
With 'Dream of Cenarious' end-talent my feral gets 140k+ Healing Touch crits every ~10 seconds.

This is on live.

However, you hardly ever see any ferals speccing Dream of Cenarius in the first place, because nobody cares if you can heal for that much if you cant kill the target.

a DPS shammy that is gettign tunneled , because he will not be alive for 20 seconds to do the damage.
02/09/2013 12:33 PMPosted by Kitteykat
they can burst while they heal. its not like flash of light triggers a massive cooldown on all your melee moves


This is more prevalent than it's been in the past.
Ferals can sacrifice their instant cyclones for instant HTs with a +30% modifier and get big heals, too.

I think the staple Ret heal should be WoG, and not FH, to promote that 'decision-making' medium. If FH healed for 50% less and WoG healed for Twice as much, though, would you say that would promote balance, or detract from?
Detract. At least flash heal is a cast. Even if it's normally used in a bubble.
02/09/2013 12:35 PMPosted by Lissbanka
a DPS shammy that is gettign tunneled , because he will not be alive for 20 seconds to do the damage.


I'm sorry, this is true for every class in the game.

If my fire mage is getting tunneled, regardless of whether or not I can pump out 2-6 instant-pyros (and potentially gib someone almost instantly) under absolutely perfect circumstance, when the pain-train comes, I aint gibbing anything until I get a window.

Regardless, we all know that the Shaman dps specs have been in a bad place for a long time. We all know it, and embrace it, and want it to change. But we can't make that happen, the Devs can.

You guys coming in to threads about every other class in the game and playing this 'WOE IS ME, IM SO WOE' all day every day doesn't accomplish anything. Who cares if you can compare another class to the historically worst specs in the game?

Not me.

Because it doesn't prove anything. "So and so's class is better than mine" is pretty damn redundant, because its been true about every other class in the game (relative to dps shamans) since Wrath.
I want my rejuvs to tick for 50k as feral
02/09/2013 12:41 PMPosted by Gethrian
Detract. At least flash heal is a cast. Even if it's normally used in a bubble.


with selfless healer its near instant

02/09/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Azlem
they can burst while they heal. its not like flash of light triggers a massive cooldown on all your melee moves


This is more prevalent than it's been in the past.
Ferals can sacrifice their instant cyclones for instant HTs with a +30% modifier and get big heals, too.

I think the staple Ret heal should be WoG, and not FH, to promote that 'decision-making' medium. If FH healed for 50% less and WoG healed for Twice as much, though, would you say that would promote balance, or detract from?


this isnt cata. wogs used to heal more cuz selfless healer used to be a passive talent ,which increases wog healing to your teammates by like 50%.

i would assume flash of light would heal more now. and theres no alternative to 3 stacks of selfless unlike druids predators swiftness just flash of light healing.
02/09/2013 12:43 PMPosted by Azlem
a DPS shammy that is gettign tunneled , because he will not be alive for 20 seconds to do the damage.


I'm sorry, this is true for every class in the game.
If my fire mage is getting tunneled, regardless of whether or not I can pump out 2-6 instant-pyros (and potentially gib someone almost instantly) under absolutely perfect circumstance, when the pain-train comes, I aint gibbing anything until I get a window.

Regardless, we all know that the Shaman dps specs have been in a bad place for a long time. We all know it, and embrace it, and want it to change. But we can't make that happen, the Devs can.

You guys coming in to threads about every other class in the game and playing this 'WOE IS ME, IM SO WOE' all day every day doesn't accomplish anything. Who cares if you can compare another class to the historically worst specs in the game?

Not me.

Because it doesn't prove anything. "So and so's class is better than mine" is pretty damn redundant, because its been true about every other class in the game (relative to dps shamans) since Wrath.


Most classes have an out though. Your mage can iceblock. Though not the most effective, I can blood presence. What can Shaman do?

The rest I agree with.
Are these 200k heals on teammates or themselves? I assume someone else. That is how sh works- it buffs heals on teammates. Add in a lucky crit and numbers dont seem too crazy to me. Also, The buff sh is purgable and takes a long time to build up.

Spriests, even with nerfs, still have more heals available to them more often than ret does. In the time it takes to get a 3 stack sh fol an spriest can cast bubble, pom, and blanket their whole team with renew. All this without casting or dropping shadow form. Plus maybe a fh or two if they have the chance.

Imo they seem pretty even. Ret is just more dramatic since it is one big heal vs several smaller ones. Overtime i imagine they even out. Not that it really matters since we are not comparing apples to apples here

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