PTR Chi Wave = Ghetto Cascade

Monk
Why would you expect a free spell to be anything more than a "Ghetto Cascade"? Cascade costs 27k mana or nearly 10% of your mana pool, Chi Wave should obviously be weaker.
Wouldn't this be better addressed by fixes to existing chi heals? What exactly is wrong with them anyway?

If the only good way to use your chi as MW is on talents, that's a problem even if the talents are good. They're talents, they're not supposed to be spammed or become part of a regular rotation.

What's wrong with them? They don't exist.

The choices for spending chi to heal besides talents are currently:
Enveloping mists, 3 chi:
2 second cast, instant while channeling soothing for a reasonably powerful hot (and increasing other hots). PvP: Welcome to interrupt town, population: you. You either cast the spell, or you channel soothing. Both are easily interrupted.

Uplift, 2 chi:
Instant heal for around 20-30k, if you have an enveloping mist on the target. This one is great in mass target situations when you've done the pre-workup hot spam. You can't really do that consistently without ooming yourself in PvP.

I don't understand this issue with talents being used rotationally. There are SO many classes that use one of their talents in a tier of 3 on cooldown, and the talent row simply becomes a choice of WHICH rotational ability or mechanic they use.

DK: Tiers 1 and 5 are used constantly in rotations. Tier 5 is a choice between 3 essential ways to recover resources.

Druid: Tier 2 is used rotationally by healers and tanks. Tier 4 is a choice between cooldowns that will be used on cooldown. Tier 6 is a choice between cooldowns that will be used on cooldown, including one always-active passive buff.

Hunter: Tier 4, 5 and 6 are all rotational abilities/mechanics.

Mage: Tier 1 is a choice between mobility-based dps abilities. Tiers 5 and 6 are rotational.

Paladin: Tier 5 and 6 are rotational. Arguably tier 3 is rotational, at least for healers and tanks.

Priest: Tiers 3 and 6 are rotational. Tier 5 arguably defines the rotation for spriest.

Rogue: No talents drastically change rotation. Tier 1 changes openers and vanish rotations.

Shaman: Tier 4 is a choice between cooldowns/passives that will be generally used on cooldown. Tier 6 abilities are used rotationally apart from prime elementalist, which will be used as often as possible when picked.

Ok.. I got bored. But you get the point. I don't understand the obsession with the concept that talents cannot contain rotational abilities when there are SO many examples of talents that do. Why is it so hard to turn tier 3 into a rotational ability choice which scales appropriately with ap/sp so that it is a rotational healing ability for mistweavers, a rotational dps ability for windwalkers, and a defensive ability for brewmasters? Remove all cooldowns for MW and WW, with the caveat that you cant have 2 chiwaves out at once, and put in cooldowns and remove chi costs for BrM.

MW:
Chi Wave: You fire a wave of chi that bounces between friends and foes up to 7 times, healing friends for (high healing) and damaging foes for (low damage).
Zen Sphere: You place a ball of chi over the head of the target, healing the target for (high healing), splash healing nearby targets for (low healing) and damaging a nearby target for (medium damage).
Chi Blast: You fire a blast of energy, healing targets between you and the target for (high healing) and damaging enemies for (low damage).

WW:
Chi Wave: You fire a wave of chi that bounces between friends and foes up to 7 times, healing friends for (low healing) and damaging foes for (high damage).
Zen Sphere: You place a ball of chi over the head of the target, healing the target for (low healing), damaging a nearby target for (high damage) and splashing damage to nearby targets for (low damage).
Chi Blast: You fire a blast of energy, healing targets between you and the target for (low healing) and damaging enemies for (high damage).

BrM (No chi cost, cooldowns).
Chi Wave: You fire a wave of chi that bounces between friends and foes up to 7 times, healing friends for (medium healing) and damaging foes for (medium damage).
Zen Sphere: You place a ball of chi over the head of the target, healing the target for (medium healing), splash healing nearby targets for (medium healing) and damaging a nearby target for (medium damage).
Chi Blast: You fire a blast of energy, healing targets between you and the target for (medium healing) and damaging enemies for (medium damage).
02/11/2013 06:41 AMPosted by Qùess
Why would you expect a free spell to be anything more than a "Ghetto Cascade"? Cascade costs 27k mana or nearly 10% of your mana pool, Chi Wave should obviously be weaker.


It already is weaker as it hits far fewer targets than cascade does even if the effect/target is the same (I haven't played my priest in a while so I don't remember exact numbers.) It is pretty ridiculous that I regularly see the previous chi wave cast still bouncing 8 seconds later when it comes off cooldown depending on where the healing targets are located in relation to the enemies.
02/11/2013 06:41 AMPosted by Qùess
Why would you expect a free spell to be anything more than a "Ghetto Cascade"? Cascade costs 27k mana or nearly 10% of your mana pool, Chi Wave should obviously be weaker.


It shouldn't heal for as much but then again it should also not take 7-15 seconds for it to actually run its duration. As it sits right now all 3 level 30 talents have been gutted. I would gladly take 27k mana on a spell that is generally in the top 4 heals for priests and requires 0 skill to use.

Lots of people hurt lets push cascade and have it hit 15 people and be able to crit for 100k+. Seems like a no brainer talent to take no? Not to mention its full duration is finished within 2-4 seconds because of how fast it travels.

I would gladly spend the chi on chi wave or chi burst instead of having it ONLY useful for refreshing BoK and uplift spam.

To the BrM that asked how I got 5k ticks it is simple. Spec MW and you get them. Regardless who is going to use that spell?
02/11/2013 02:58 PMPosted by Wönka
To the BrM that asked how I got 5k ticks it is simple. Spec MW and you get them. Regardless who is going to use that spell?


In our 10 man group we run with two monks, myself as BrM and another as MW. We were both excited before this last round of nerfs to Zen Sphere to be honest. Currently on live against what others say I have played around with Zen Sphere and I will say that there are some fights I like it much better than Chi Wave, although I pick Chi Wave to prove more raid support as I rarely get each bounce to come to myself. The fact Zen Sphere scales decently on live with vengeance means that I can easily get 20k healing ticks and 100k explosions. With the change that it would auto detonate at 35% hp made it even more tempting for tanking. Our MW liked it for this too as both he and I would be able to coordinate Spheres on the raid before say a major damage event occurred.

As it stands now though our MW just quit playing last week, so I will end up sticking with Chi Wave.

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