[Discussion] Remove Auto-Attack?

Rogue
ogues.. thieves.. are known for chipping away enemies with auto attacks.. its how rogues are played.. especially in games prior to wow.

get used to it.. l2p and use auto attacks to your advantage.


Saifu, your posts just get worse and worse.
I'd keep auto-attack, as well as SnD except for Assassination, and bump up poison damage for Mut to compensate.

I'd move some of the damage from auto-attacks to active sources. Some to CP builders, but mainly to finishers. Finishers have a built in ramp up time due to Energy and CP's, and have for a long time been very weak in relation to the build up necessary.

Would be fun for finishers to hit hard, rather than just be a Combo Point dump. They currently feel like the Heroic Strike of the Rogue repertoire.
02/11/2013 11:26 AMPosted by Darwin
Would the removal of autoattack be a compelling reason for new players to roll a rogue? Would it be too drastic of a change for existing players?
It's not really to get new players on the Rogue wagon. That would only be an incidental result of the class made more appealing, which in imo, would be achieved with active > passive changes.
I don't at all speak for the whole community but I'm pretty sure the majority of Rogues would like to have a more active role in dealing their own damage.

02/11/2013 11:26 AMPosted by Darwin
As Jamalia said above, this is a big change. We'd have a ton of balancing issues, which may not get resolved until mid-expansion, or even the next.
Of course with any change, there'd be some rough patches but as long as it's done right and quickly, I wouldn't complain.
02/11/2013 11:26 AMPosted by Darwin
DPS numbers may drop off drastically for new or uninformed players, since they are used to the 30-40% passive damage.
New and fresh players have the benefit of having no preference and nothing to unlearn. Uninformed players will learn from playing, hopefully getting used to the changes.

02/11/2013 11:26 AMPosted by Darwin
Is there a way that Blizzard could do this in a *sellable* fashion, not just because they can?
If the players can prove that too much passive damage is a bad thing and Blizzard decides to do something about it, the change will happen because it needs to happen, not just because they can.

Good questions.

02/11/2013 11:56 AMPosted by Blacksad
Would be fun for finishers to hit hard, rather than just be a Combo Point dump. They currently feel like the Heroic Strike of the Rogue repertoire.
"Use when you have more R̶a̶g̶e̶ Combo Points than you can spend."
rofl, didn't know that was you. Was just reading the name origin thread. I'm not that sharp sometimes...
Sorry, off topic.

On topic- the more I think about it, the more I like it. My auto attack is just something that I had to macro into all of my abilities. I'd so be much happier with your suggestion, faster energy regen (not sure if this would be as good for all specs- don't play combat), or something, and lose the need for the silly macros so many of us have made. Big loss. More fun.

Can Blizz manage to do it right?

: )
Can Blizz manage to do it right?

: )
Faith in Blizzard? For PVP, kinda tapped out. PVE? I wouldn't know.

Despite this, I still play.
I wouldn't at all mind an opportunity to "see for myself" what the playstyle would be like, and to see whether I agree with GC and the internal playtesters that it feels awful. But I'm inclined to trust their instinct if they universally felt it didn't work.

I have a hard time seeing such a fundamental change to class gameplay as being a good thing for all the players who never saw a problem with being able to autoattack in the first place. That's exactly the kind of wholesale mechanic change that can turn off a massive number of people who are long-used to playing a class in a particular way (and who don't feel the need to post in forums talking about how comfortable they are).

It's way easier to implement something like that for a class that doesn't exist yet, which is why they considered it for monks. And if it didn't work for them... Why would it for us? Why would it even be worth upsetting that many people to try? If the point is that too much of our damage is passive, there are other ways to fix it that aren't so cataclysmic.
02/11/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Rfeann
I wouldn't at all mind an opportunity to "see for myself" what the playstyle would be like, and to see whether I agree with GC and the internal playtesters that it feels awful. But I'm inclined to trust their instinct if they universally felt it didn't work.


They should start recording that stuff and share it. Would be interesting in general just to see all the in-house changes that never even see ptr. :P
I totally agree. For folks like me who obsess over details and love knowing the thought/design process behind decisions -- and, I'd imagine, for many of the tinfoil-hat wearers who prefer to believe that because Blizz didn't implement something they must not have thought about it very much -- it'd be really cool to see.

For instance, accident or no accident, it was really cool to actually see Hit & Run in action on the Patch 5.2 PTR even though it apparently was never supposed to make it into a full build for the public.
@Rfeann: There are indeed other ways to shift damage from passive to active. It had occurred to me that I would post the most extreme change and work down from there. I knew it was crazy >_<

I see a lot of Rogues saying that auto's should stay but definitely tuned waay down, even going as far as removing SnD. I agree but I still wouldn't mind if auto's just went away, with Combo Points being the only real ramp up mechanic.

@Knoc: I too would like to see some vids of the tests. Especially with feedback as anecdotal as "weird".
Yah! Man. I remember a while back I was thinking about how interesting it would be to watch the Dev discuss class changes in the boardroom. haha.

Hey-
Maybe they don't show that stuff because the conspiracies are true.

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