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OMG!!! A blue response directed towards recruitment. This must be a sign of the impending apocalypse.!!!

Pretty much everything you say is correct. Why Blizzard hasn't given us real tools to recruit just boggles my mind. With all the effort they supposedly put into content the state of the recruitment forums and in game tools is an embarrassment.
I'll be laughing at a lot of these posts when we are in month 7 of the final raid tier, waiting for the new xpac.
So, folks, remember how so many people whined about 4.3 being too long with not enough? And now they give us a load to do (which you have to do if you want to gear up at a reasonable rate), and release quicker patches, and suddenly you realize what you thought you wanted isn't what you wanted?

For me, 5.2 can't get here soon enough. Sure, I'm 1/16 for this tier, because PUGs seem to be non-existent and the new gearing/leveling model destroyed the ability for some guild to put together raid teams (whereas I used to be in a main and a side team in my guild, we can't even field a solid main team right now). So I have nothing to do. What, run more of the same content I've run too much of? You thought three dungeons and a short raid constantly were bad, when you could at least switch to alts to experience it in a different way? Try playing just one character, which MoP is really designed for, and slogging through more content but which you have to run more often. I'm sick of dailies, sick of these same dungeons, scenarios, Rage Finder, etc. I'm at ilvl 485, good enough for 5.2, I don't want to even log in right now. MoP made me come to dread and then loathe playing the game. I'm playing other games mostly right now, because I can't stand it.

I want more patches, faster! I'll get through the story of 5.2 quick enough, through the LFR a handful of times, and be done with the game again until 5.3 drops. I'm NOT going to keep slogging through the same boring content over and over and over for minimal progress. I do enough work at work, I come home and want to relax, not do more work. If I was going to work at home, I'd be getting paid for it, not paying for it. And that's what MoP is to me: work. Only less exciting.
There are 16 bosses you have to clear on normal and then heroic, recruiting is hard enough since you changed your recruitment forums years back to be a giant clusterf* and to top it off, HOLIDAYS that maybe didn't matter when we were younger but now that we're not - we can't skip em anymore.

I'm pretty irate atm and just venting but I wish you'd give us more than TWO WEEKS notice sometimes. TWO WEEKS??? Used to give us a month or two. Thanks for nothing.

This is pathetic, we go from complaining that we need content quicker to complaining it's coming too quick? I am fully convinced WoW players are the biggest batch of babies ever.

Actually, I've complained about two things: Removal of original ZG mounts that I farmed since Vanilla and never saw and now this. I don't like dailies but I don't have to do them. I don't like nerfs, but they are needed. I just like some extra notice about things and as a paying subscriber for years, it isn't a lot to ask. I don't request things to be given to me that I don't deserve and I love that they added BMAH to get mounts that we may have been unlucky on. They have done a lot of good and bad to this game because there is no pleasing everyone, but that 1% of guilds that has killed sha, they will just get more sales if you give the rest of us another month or two to get as far as we can. This tier is fun and it's hard and I LOVE IT.
There are 16 bosses you have to clear on normal and then heroic, recruiting is hard enough since you changed your recruitment forums years back to be a giant clusterf* and to top it off, HOLIDAYS that maybe didn't matter when we were younger but now that we're not - we can't skip em anymore.

I'm pretty irate atm and just venting but I wish you'd give us more than TWO WEEKS notice sometimes. TWO WEEKS??? Used to give us a month or two. Thanks for nothing.

Holidays that didn't matter when you were a kid matter now that you aren't? Like what? Explain that one if you can, I doubt you can though.

As to a month notice, never happened. Most of the time we don't get any warning at all.

Talk out your !@#$ a little bit more kid.
Just to throw my 0 cents in (we round down here in Canada now), this release date is sooner than I was expecting. It is a critical cut off for item upgrades and consequent gear creep (which is another reason item upgrades was a bad idea to begin with), so pick the date wisely I guess... But tbh I was projecting mid to late March.

Heroic testing has not even begun; LFR balance is very messy (moreso mechanics than numbers); NO 25 MAN TESTING WILL OCCUR AT THIS RATE. Basically I don't see this releasing in a finished state, and I suspect cutting off item upgrades is putting undue pressure on the release date.
I'd also like it if people would stop with the ridiculous strawmanning of what people are saying, but that's not likely to happen.

There's a balance between to be reached between "Tier today, new tier tomorrow" and the ICC/DS situation where we were stuck with 1 boss per 4-6 weeks, and Blizzard is killing this tier early for no fathomable reason. They can't even say it's because players are bored when less than 40% of progression raiders have even set foot inside of Terrace, let alone cleared it, on normals alone.

I agree, except for one thing.


I'm MORE than sick of LFR at this point (I have 5 90's that do most of the raids every week.)

These numbers are made up, but you get the idea.

The TOP end of the raiding population (lets say top 5%) is getting tired of the raiding content.

The BOTTOM end of the raiding population (aka LFR, 80%?) is getting tired of the raiding content.

The MIDDLE tier of the raiding population is still going to one extent or the's either new raiding content for 85% of the (raiding) population or suffer more declines in subs (that go to other games...)due to lack of new stuff to do so that the 15% can take their time, which could take a while...

Majority rules... and T14 isn't going anywhere - so it's not like you can't complete it after the patch.
02/11/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Rivellana

Only 30% of guilds have cleared the tier on normal due to some of the tuning mistakes that caused excessive roadblocks to progression for more casual guilds. Tuning, plus the falling of three major holidays all landing during the tier severely impacts progression for most guilds, and the normal issues of maintaining rosters all culminated in delaying progression for what is obviously an enormous amount of bosses to try to chew through.

Even if you assume a single boss per week is normal progression rate, which is about right on average for most, that means Blizzard is just barely at the cusp of allowing people a single, flawless shot at seeing sha before 5.2 completely nullifies the tier as content due to the absurd ilvl jump from 5.0 raids and 5.2 starting ilvls.

Regardless of how you feel on the matter, expecting everyone to have managed 2 bosses a week through both normals and heroics just isn't a rational expectation, and the clearance rates for T14 demonstrate that. Which is genuinely odd because they keep posting about how TOC invalidating Ulduar was one of their worst development mistakes, when they're on the verge of doing the exact same thing here.

This is completely idiotic and irrational thinking.

To all those whining about the patch being "too soon," SO WHAT?

So what if it is 2 weeks away? Your guild will still be able to work on normal / heroic mode bosses in tier 14. You can turn the 10% buff off as well. Your guild may not be done with that content, but there are a lot who are.

Just because there is more raid content available, does not mean you HAVE to be doing that content. I'm sorry, but if you haven't cleared normal T14 by now you are a mediocre guild. If you haven't made steady progression in heroic T14 by now, you are not in any way a hardcore progression guild competing for server "first, second, third whatever". You are a mediocre heroic guild so just live with it.

I personally love this tiered raid system. It has some of that Burning Crusade feel, where it will be gating out the less skilled players for awhile until they catch up in their gear level. And with LFR, those bads will be mouth breathing their way into normal Thunder King soon enough (hopefully not too soon though).

TL:DR: Get over it. Bring on T15.

See, I can agree with the idea of just doing the 5.0 stuff even after 5.2 came out. That's what the guild I'm in is going to end up doing.

HOWEVER... It has nothing to do with "skill." Too much of the game revolves around gear. Think that's wrong? Why do they bump up the item level of players in raid testing? But gearing went from being reasonable to being a slow, boring grind on one character, and God help you if you want to play another, or partake in something like Pet Battles. That's where we had problems. Even if we leave our alts to sit around collecting dust, the Valor system is a mess, it requires boring tedious monotony over and over and over until your eyes bleed. Most of us aren't interested in that. Even in dealing with Rage Finder. I tried, for too long. I came to hate the game because it was so mind-numbingly boring. Some people can do that. Others... not so much.

And as for tiered gearing? Ha. My alts will grind BGs for a weekend to get 476 armor, hop into HoF and/or Terrace to get a weapon or two and round up to 480, and be in 5.2 LFR within a week or two of hitting 90, getting better gear than boring dailies and junk will award. So that's my game in the near future: Get alts to 90, BGs for a weekend, handful of 5.0 LFR, and then 5.2 LFR and ignore any further 5.0 content. Which means I'll have roughly as much to do as I did in Cata. Less, really, because there's no new dungeons, and as I won't be unlocking reps for unnecessary gear, I have no reason to run the old dungeons, so I'll end up with just weekly LFR runs for my characters.
02/11/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Vanshear
LOL WOW. You think WoW is patching to fast go play Rift NOW THAT IS FAST.

True, but it's nice relatively small chunks, so pretty digestible.

I'm waiting for the Storm Legion leveling to be fixed before I do too much in RIFT. Currently leveling a new Guardian, but my poor level 50 Mage isn't looking forward to a slow grind where I have to do two continents to hit 60. If I want a slow horrible grind I'll log into WoW.
Yeaaa Blizzard let everyone wallow in the current raids so we can start getting more "I'm bored with current content and quitting" posts darn you for trying to get stuff out fast!
02/11/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Rivellana
but if you haven't cleared normal T14 by now you are a mediocre guild.

Less than 30% of guilds have cleared T14. Please have at least some perspective on things before commenting, doubly so when you very ignorantly claim that ~90% of the world's raiding guilds are just scrubs who need to "try harder" or give up raiding. I don't normally do the armoury thing, but that you are being so critical of the skills of guilds who dwarf both your heroic and normal progression just makes your comments even more ridiculous than they were already. The only thing more ridiculous in all of this is the number of LFR only players who are clamouring for T15 content like they've accomplished something and are ready for more.
I think the bigger problem is if this goes too fast, and they delay t16 way beyond its due, this is where they could have made up more time.

This. 16 bosses is A LOT especially with Christmas and Thanksgiving causing most guilds to lose at least 2-3 weeks of progress.

Throw in that Blizzard decided to make it a thing to have a feat of strength for finishing a tier of content before the next releases, and you have a recipe for disaster if they release things too soon.

That few have cleared ALL of the content. That's ok with you guys? Is it a hard to understand concept that you'll have people not finishing tiers of content completely before the new one jumps in and makes the old content completely obsolete? You kind of really amped up the ilvls of the new content so much that doing even heroic of the previous tier is foolish for any progression based guilds.

1. The feat is for clearing normal content.
2. The feat for clearing heroic content has been there since MoP released.
3. Are you honestly saying that people not getting a feat of strength is a "recipe for disaster"
The rent is just too damn high!

Wait...what thread is this again?
I can't wait for 5.3 because this raid patch will hold my progression back. There is no way I'll be doing LFR every week. So at most I'll probably be getting to friendly with this faction.

I just hope the daily content is as more like the amount from 5.0 then 5.1. Just 5 dailies a day would be really boring fast.
02/11/2013 01:46 PMPosted by Elbeghast
If our estimate changes we'll let you know.

How about you give us an estimate first. We will go from there. Until then,shut it,blue.

Um, they did give an estimate: the last week of February. Angry much?

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