5.2 release too early?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
I would've preferred a early-march release but this works. As long as T16 isn't 10 months I don't think many will complain about this in the end.

Just please get the bosses correctly tested and get the bugs out.
I'm definitely in the NOT too early camp. Though I AM biased, because MSV is OLD and boring, HoF is annoying, and ToES is boring. Not a fan of these first raids minus Elegon.

I'd rather have the next tier (Ulduar 2.0) last 8 months than have this tier last any longer than it has to...
02/12/2013 06:02 AMPosted by Osmeric
5.2 is not too early. This is how Blizz was supposed to put out content in the first place, as they claimed during closed beta back in 2003/2004.


Conforming to plans/intentions is not the same as actually being correct.


MOST other MMO's push out new content every 1-3 months. Blizzard is still slow by industry standards...

Again, T14 is not disappearing, you can still run it after the patch.
I don't believe content those MMOs push out have the depth and sheer size of changes/additions that WOW content patches do.
MOST other MMO's push out new content every 1-3 months. Blizzard is still slow by industry standards...

Again, T14 is not disappearing, you can still run it after the patch.


After the patch, clearing T14 will feel (to these raiders) like kissing their sisters. It won't be the same. Obsolete content never is.

I'm not running T14 at all (beyond LFR, which is really another category altogether), so I'm actually happy to see Blizzard screwing up normal/heroic modes. I dislike their design this expansion for raids, so I'd like to see it fail as badly as possible. Ticking off many of the people still struggling to do these raids seems an excellent step in that direction.
I'm not running T14 at all (beyond LFR, which is really another category altogether), so I'm actually happy to see Blizzard screwing up normal/heroic modes. I dislike their design this expansion for raids, so I'd like to see it fail as badly as possible. Ticking off many of the people still struggling to do these raids seems an excellent step in that direction.


How would you even know you don't like the model if you don't raid? Personally I think this is the best tier I've played since BC (missed ulduar, T11 gets honorable mention) and the release date of T15 will do nothing to change that opinion. I don't think anyone is even making the case that they are screwing up normal or heroic, just that the tier is being cut a little short considering the raw amount of bosses it contained.
MOST other MMO's push out new content every 1-3 months. Blizzard is still slow by industry standards...

Again, T14 is not disappearing, you can still run it after the patch.


After the patch, clearing T14 will feel (to these raiders) like kissing their sisters. It won't be the same. Obsolete content never is.

I'm not running T14 at all (beyond LFR, which is really another category altogether), so I'm actually happy to see Blizzard screwing up normal/heroic modes. I dislike their design this expansion for raids, so I'd like to see it fail as badly as possible. Ticking off many of the people still struggling to do these raids seems an excellent step in that direction.


1) 10% buff can be disabled
2) No one says you HAVE to wear any of the new gear to do T14 if people want the challenge.
3) These people crying who have not finished the tier yet are missing out on...Feats of Strength. Is it really a feat if you are given unlimited amount of time to complete it? Nope.

I stopped raiding at 8/16 a few weeks ago because I couldn't find a guild that was a good fit for me...and I'm not sad the tier is ending.
02/11/2013 09:44 PMPosted by Kreeara
And then on the flipside if they'd released it 2 months from now, people would be screaming bloody murder about how we've waited too long for a patch.


Yup.

I'm not bleeding edge progression in any way. (Had a brief conversation about that early in this tier with a guildmate who had previously been in a realm-first style guild but left due to time constraints: he missed it, I have no desire to go there.) I'm in a 9/16N guild, expecting to wrap up HoF in the next two weeks, so we might just get 16/16N right before 5.2 drops.

And it's about time.

So what is the right timing? Two weeks per boss? Four weeks per boss? 75% completion on normal mode? 25% completion on heroic mode? Should all guilds with one normal mode kill be at least 50% through before the next tier? Do guilds that don't start raiding until four months in get the same time consideration as guilds that started on week one?

The way it stands now, t11 will have 5-6 months of life. Even counting in downtime for Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years, that's plenty of time. Especially when you consider that there was more gearing opportunity during t11 than in any previous raid tier:

• Elder Coins for additional rolls
• LFR with personal loot tables
• Valor gear with tier-equivalent ilevel, and VP awarded from dailies, scenarios, heroics and raids/LFR
• A very quickly respawning world boss that has personal loot tables and can award tier gear
• i-level upgrades from VP

02/11/2013 09:32 PMPosted by Heiros
We had 7 months of T11 (13 boss tier)


That was far too long. Waaaay too long. We had a rough time at the start of t11, and even though I was out of the game for a month in in the middle of that tier, I was farming the tier for two months before I was finally so bored that I quit the game. Not just "I'm going to take a break, see you guys when FL comes out", but full on quit. Deleted my gear. Emptied my bank (if only I'd known that transmog was going to happen - I would've kept some pretty gear). Gave away my gold.

We had 10 months of Dragon Soul (8 boss tier)
we had 6-7 months of Firelands (7 boss tier)


Really happy that I missed this.
3) These people crying who have not finished the tier yet are missing out on...Feats of Strength. Is it really a feat if you are given unlimited amount of time to complete it? Nope.


This is pretty much the one statement we are in agreement upon. We may get the feat, we may not but win, lose or draw it should not be something that is obtainable in future patches. It's a cutting edge achievement, it would not make much sense to call someone who kills the boss a year after its release on the cutting edge.

IF they leave it in they need to add a Herald of the Titans-esq requirement not allowing the use of future gear to complete it but honestly I'm not even in favor of that. Let the feat of strength be the one reward the people who complete the tier while current keep.
02/12/2013 08:00 AMPosted by Kerranggaroo
The way it stands now, t11 will have 5-6 months of life.


Assuming you mean T14 and you are not entirely correct. HoF will have been out for just under 4 months and terrace will have been out for just under 3 1/2 months. Vaults will have been out for roughly 5 but that was just the entry level raid anyways. One of those weeks was xmas/new years and one was thanksgiving.
After thinking about it, I'm not really too disappointed or anything that it's coming out in 2 weeks.

The thing I'm worried about is how many bugs are going to be in the boss fights. If they can test 25 man normal and heroic before then and get most of the bugs out, great. But if they don't have time to do that, and we get undertuned/overtuned bosses, it'll be pretty frustrating. Then I'll be angry that they couldn't have waited a couple of weeks.
3) These people crying who have not finished the tier yet are missing out on...Feats of Strength. Is it really a feat if you are given unlimited amount of time to complete it? Nope.


The Feats are stupid, really.
Doubting the 26th will be the launch date as they did not call for the end of the pvp season. Finish up quick. I know we have two weeks to get sha down which i think we will get. We raid three nights a week as well.

edit: not sure if they even did 25 man raid testing yet. Which if they release the patch without that god help us with out of control bugs followed by hotfixes.
02/12/2013 08:31 AMPosted by Hyjinx
3) These people crying who have not finished the tier yet are missing out on...Feats of Strength. Is it really a feat if you are given unlimited amount of time to complete it? Nope.


The Feats are stupid, really.


Yea, I never really liked the concept of feats of strength in the first place.
I wish that my guild would have had more time to clear the tier but I guess I'll take it.
It also sucks because I had to change mains and that meant restarting the legendary quest after having 9/16h on farm. Which also put me way behind the curves on gear upgrades (which are idiotic anyway).

I feel like it's coming a little too fast, and the 2-week notice is a little inconsiderate of progression guilds that are pushing to finish off the tier. Something like a month would give ample time for guilds to be able to step it off and get that final push in. Not two weeks.
It seems the consensus is that the ones that are okay with the (rushed) 5.2 release are those that have either finished the content or never had a shot at doing it.

How someone that's 9/16 is "bored" with T14 and looking forward the next raid, I'll never understand.
Push it back until the end of march for a few reasons.
1:heroic testing started -today- do they really expect to have it all worked out in 2 weeks?
2:with so very few guilds having cleared the tier on heroic, another month will allow for a few more to clear the tier pre-nerf, however it still won't let everyone
3:not really a reason, but when has blizzard ever actually released a content patch on schedule with no bugs?
be smart blizzard, nobody cares if you push it back a few weeks as long as when it does come out, it's been tested properly.

personally? I'm 10/16H and I could care either way, would I like to clear the tier before the nerf with my guild who raids 9 hours a week and started late into the tier?
Of course, but I welcome this next tier as a chance for us to push off the bat now that we're ready for it.
That this thread hasn't gotten a Ragnaros upset with Executus quote yet, makes me sad.
There's still enough time for the guilds that are 14/16+ to pull off clears if they really want it. Sha is hard, sure, but its not an insurmountable task to get the guild credit.

Personally I'm glad they're attaching an end date to the feats. My guild got it last week, and even that feels silly. Killing the final boss 2months + after the initial kills is hardly cutting edge. Letting it run 30-60 more days would make it even less meaningful.

I'm also surprised people are surprised by this. Blizz promised more content faster. When 5.1 was announced they indicated that the plan was to introduce mid tier patches 2 months into the tier and to have raids every 4 months. While I never would have guessed they'd actually manage this, it is on target for what we've been told.
02/12/2013 08:31 AMPosted by Hyjinx
The Feats are stupid, really.


02/12/2013 09:12 AMPosted by Firestyle
Yea, I never really liked the concept of feats of strength in the first place.


What's wrong with the feats? When Wrath moved the game to a current tier or GTFO model instead of linear progression achievments were suppossed to be how you seperated who did what/when but scrolling through hundreds of tehm to see dates is kinda lame. Feats work perfect for that.

The only mistake I see with the feats is that the titles Delver of the Vaults and the Fearless weren't tied to the Feats rather than just the achievments. That would have been a perfect icing on the cake reward for the players who pushed through it rather than waiting to brute force it later.

Have you ever noticed all the threads in the achievment forums asking for a title reward for the Sinestra immortal achievment? Ever noticed that without exception it's people who did it with full DS gear four weeks before 5.0 went live?

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