Feral PvP Issues

So I keep reading on this forum how awesome feral is in PvP, and I'm starting to wonder if this is just a vocal minority. For a long time now I've believed people claiming how deadly we are, and I assumed it was a gear issue on my part so I've waited to post anything. My PvP set is only missing Malevolent neck and rings, everything else is gemmed, enchanted, etc. With that said, I get just destroyed in bgs. Most people say to bleed/kite, but I must be doing something wrong. I get a good 5 pt Rip on them boosted by SR with a Rake, then I snare and run away. Usually the bleed does less than they can self heal for, or the bleeds take long enough to be effective for the player to get within range of a healer, and completely undo their effect with a single cast. Sometimes this tactic works, but it's a pretty low percentage.

Staying toe-to-toe with any kind of melee (except rogues... poor rogues) is pretty much guaranteed death, as we're scarcely more resilient than clothies. Trying to bleed-kite a ranged is pretty much suicide as well, since most range classes are fully dps effective at 40 yards while you're hoping your bleeds will even do 30% of their health.

And the fears... don't get me started! Getting feared with 135% movement speed is so awful. Especially when it lands you farther than the range of your gap closer. If you happen to have a DoT on you, good luck trying to re-stealth and re-engage.

So what am I doing wrong? L2P? I kinda hope so, but the suggestions people give seem to vague or over-simplified. "Just bleed/kite them!", "Use barkskin when they blow <cooldown>!". Yeah, I do all of that. Maybe I'm doing it at the wrong time. I have tons of macros for power-shifting, focus CC targets, charging, keeping rejuv up, all within easy access. Maybe I just suck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
02/13/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Floiban
I get just destroyed in bgs.

Staying toe-to-toe with any kind of melee (except rogues... poor rogues) is pretty much guaranteed death, as we're scarcely more resilient than clothies.

Maybe I just suck.
I don't think anyone has been recommending bleed kiting this expansion. Feral damage, like *most* classes, is pretty mediocre outside of cooldowns. Bleed damage is just part of that mediocre package.

The recommendations I've seen have been: "blow all of your cooldowns at the same time and do crazy damage with Ravage spam."

This strategy will fail you, if your opponent has really powerful mitigation or immunity cooldowns. In which case, you will need to try to force them to use those cooldowns before you pop all of yours. This can be hard and require more finesse.
This expansion our bleeds do not hit nearly as hard as in Cata. They aren't practically our entire source of damage anymore, so don't treat them as such. Like Clay said, the best way to kill people is just pop all of your cooldowns and watch them die if they don't have cooldowns. Our steady pressure and fairly good sustained dps is what allows us to try and force a few cooldowns, once they see hp dropping, then you can take them down when it's all used. However, if you use Incarnation, prepare to get CC'ed until next week.
Yeah maybe that's basically what I'm doing. If fighting melee I blow Incarnation/Zerk/NV. I do this only when my trinket is available so that hopefully I'll get some diminishing returns on the soon-to-be CC spam I'm about to receive. Fighting ranged I mostly just try to stay on them, but most classes have more than just snares in their arsenal. Fear is brutal. Of course BM hunters with the pet spam is near impossible to survive without LoS'ing anyway. But if that was for balance sake, I wouldn't mind having a couple classes that are strong against us.

I guess when no cooldowns are available, running from equally geared melee classes is the best tactic? And if bleeds are so weak, should I reforge out of mastery whenever possible in to crit?

Either way, I don't see other ferals doing well in battlegrounds either. Almost never top damage, almost never top kills, and when spotted almost always targeted first as an "easy kill" by other classes. However, I know that our role has changed this expansion and we're more stealth and interference than we are brute force. But, once spotted I know I target them first on my DK or mage when I see one because I know how squishy they are.

And I'm talking battlegrounds here, mainly. Arena is a different animal completely, with SOME of the same limitations but at least you have your cooldowns every fight.

Thanks for the feedback so far. I'll try to pressure an enemy to trigger defensive cooldowns before using mine. :-* I've also thought about moving Incarnation/NV out of my Berzerk macro, and waiting till the last 15 seconds of Incarnation before triggering berserk. Hopefully by then all their defensive CD's will be consumed?
When you are about to pop on some one use savage roar and your ravage should hit any where from 20k up to 50k, effectively breaking most to all bubbles in 2s. also don't forget to use shadow meld to get a quick re-stealth for another pounce
Based on what I've experience. Feral druid are the most difficult-challenging classes that I've come across, mostly due to their rotations and lack of energy regeneration.
I am not sure why you are having so much trouble.

I am in no way an elite player, at all, but I find feral to be so strong right now.

I can only guess you are speaking about random bgs and not mid/high rated bgs or rbgs; and to that:

I rarely, ever, pop incarn or nv. I just don't need it to kill things as feral. The only time I will is if I need to solo a FC or someone preventing me from capping. I am in full dreadful (blue) and 2x upgrade mal weapon (I am also boomy spec with better gear).

I go toe to toe with pretty much every class. I gem resil.

I am really liberal with my use of barkskin and ns+ht, the cds are so low and I get so many predswift healing touches. I'd glyph for the extra heal in cat, it helps a lot imo.

Like I said I am not a great pvper or anything but here's a lil what I do:

I don't glyph SR. A lot of people do, but I find it way easy to manage; I hated it at first but got used to dealing with it.

I also don't take wild charge. I know...But I just love being super fast and have very little trouble closing gaps with my powershifting. I take the speed boost and thats 174% in cat (%246 sprinting) and 200% in travel. Very easy to close gaps being that fast. (good for randoms not so much for arenas)

I always open with pounce; and often will SR immediately to get a good ravage. Often times I can get a tiger's fury rip before I need to SR again. Once I get the TF Rip on the guy I just keep on them like glue and it is usually ggs. If they pop defensives I might get distance and try to restealth, cc em and restart (knowing that their defensives are on cd). It is pretty easy to get a 5cp rip and like I said I rarely ever use the big CDs for one random dude in a random bg. If I pop my big CDs its GG for any classes/any spec. Even if they fear me or cc me for 15 seconds, I got 15 more seconds left before the long cds wear off.

I am really liberal with my use of barksin and ns+ht. The cds are so low. I'll use them early too, since if things go south I can always clone/bash restealth.

I always try to symbiosis with a priest for the dispersion. If there isn't a priest then I go with a pally. If there is no pally I'll go with a hunter (dropping target confuses an absurd amount of people in randoms).

I just try to anticipate what the player is going to do and keep pressure on them.

This post is too long, sorry.
Here's a tip: Don't macro all of your Burst together. If they see that Incarnation armor, they'll CC you. And most likely, they'll CC you for 30 ish seconds. So have a Incarnation keybound, along with NV, Berserk, your on use trinket. Plus there's a good chance that something will come off of CD early like 5-10 seconds before another ability.

Additions: If you want to succeed, go Balance. Much more utility. More people ask for Doomkins than Feral. I honestly regret not going Balance and I can't really break 1600 in RBGs.
02/14/2013 07:17 PMPosted by Spetnas
Here's a tip: Don't macro all of your Burst together.

Lots of good feedback here, thanks everyone.
02/14/2013 07:17 PMPosted by Spetnas
Additions: If you want to succeed, go Balance. Much more utility. More people ask for Doomkins than Feral. I honestly regret not going Balance and I can't really break 1600 in RBGs.

/agree with this. I'm not even that well geared yet but I almost feel like giving up. I feel super strong in low level crap 2s and random BG's (but who really cares about those tbh) and I do like feral (hadn't played it in 3yrs but it grabbed me by the shorties this season). BUT I agree the general consensus is even though people seem to say/think we're strong nobody ever (literally EVER) is looking for a Feral for their RBG teams. MAYBE Guardian on a bad day when no DKs or Prot Warriors are around.

But I sorta ended up giving up on ever going the distance with this guy as rated RBG's go and started suckling on the DK teet once again =( /sigh.

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