Quick 10-man Raid Healing Question :D

Hey folks, my raids healers are having some mana issues, and I can't help but think that maybe they're using high mana cost abilities ineffectively. Example, We'll be on Garalon, and our shaman healer will throw out a healing rain and ask people to step in it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you supposed to throw healing rain out in 10-man situations, even on fights like Garalon?

I'm pretty sure Healing rain is a 40% mana cost, so why would you want to drop it on a fight where everyone is all over the place, and ask people to step in it. Wouldn't Chain heal be more effective in AoE situations such as Garalon? Healing rain doesn't seem worth it to me if 3-5 people are in it, when you could do a chain heal instead.

Any insight on how to effectively AoE heal 10 man situations would be greatly appreciated, and on how to conserve mana more efficiently.

Thanks a bunch folks :)
If I may ask, what comp are you using for Garalon?

We three heal it (resto shaman, disc priest, X (need a permanent third healer)). Ultimately what I do is based on our composition, and if we were to two heal I'd do things differently. But this is basically what I do now:

- Glyph riptide. Since I'm doing pheromones, I find it helpful to keep it rolling on everyone in range when I'm doing pheromones. (Probably could do without this since SWG should be up every time, but either way it works)

- Healing stream on cd, stone bulwark on cd, riptide -> tidal wave (greater) healing waves. That's about all I do, and it works for our group. Chain heal and healing rain just don't seem that useful to me for 10 man
For Garalon, We currently rock 2 melee DPS, 2 tanks, 3 healers (Shammy, Disc Priest, Pally) 3 ranged. We currently have the 3 ranged on Pheromones, then have our pally healer do the 4th, (We do 4 Pheromone rotation) I had a feeling neither chain heal or Healing rain are that effective for 10 man situations, but she doesn't have to move and cast too often because she is no longer in the Pheromone rotation. (We've downed the boss twice now, the 2nd time still took about an hour and a half) As for the riptide glyph, it baffles me why you wouldn't want that, its a nice HoT you can throw on the DPS so you can focus on other players.

Do shaman's just burn through mana none the less though? At about what Percent should the boss be at when you are running Oom?

Thanks for you time :)
I two heal Normal Garalon with a Resto Druid. Of every attempt I've ever had, I don't think I've ever used CH or HR on this fight (I heal tanks and kiters, though). Technically using HR would be optimal due to the sheer HPM of the ability, but it does assume your raid will take advantage of it. I endure pretty easily without using HR and ultimately just feel it would complicate things for our raid if I asked them to be mindful of it. I also don't use RT glyph.

Without CH or HR you're pretty much left with just RT, GHW, and HW. The rest, like HST, are pretty standard. It's slightly less mana efficient, but I don't go OOM and our DPS kind of squeezes past the enrage timers so I typically last all fight unless horrible mistakes occur, but even then I usually manage to the end with only little struggle. If this hasn't already been put in perspective by now, my raid group is kind of average, so we only witness these fights way beyond gear levels that others probably have first done it in, but I love my mana efficiency. =)

Anyways, cooldowns are a huge thing both raidwide and personal. I've really emphasized intelligently using defensives for abilities like Crush, particularly when a raidwide cooldown is unavailable, and I think that really wins it for us, otherwise we might have mana issues.

There are definitely times to use HR or CH, but not very often in 10 man IMO. I usually just use my HST, Riptide people, and HW if appropriate. I'm an old-fashioned kind of healer, I guess.
Haha Thanks for your input bud.

Yeah we're really casual and all outgearing the fights. We are currently 4/6 in HoF. We Three heal most bosses, 2 heal those that we have on farm. As for our shammies gear atm, she is currently at a 493 ilvl. Yet her HPS are under 40k at most times. What is a good HPS for a shammy on a progression fight? We go through Mana Cooldowns like no other (Mana stream, Divine Hymn, etc.) Remind you, we had 3 healers for our Garalon attempt, so I feel we shouldn't have a huge healer issue, yet while I'm DPSing, I sit near 20%-30% for quite awhile on my monk. We use our defensive's properly, and the healers will call out if they need some help.

So my Questions are, Whats a good HPS for a Shammy at 393 ilvl, and should they have any real problems with mana? This is in a 10-man progression situation.

Again thanks for the help and any further comments :)
Healing rain on CD is awesome for this fight.
2 heal it so fight goes faster.
Have the disc heal the tanks kiters and him/herself
Shammy can keep HR on CD, range needs to be sure to stand in it (melee when they can)play follow the blue circle om Gara's butt. If they do, should not need to use hardly any other heal outside heals to melee as needed, TC to get mana back, good game.

P.S logs will help.

Logs for my last kill
Glyphing Riptide is almost always a bad thing to do (since it loses it's huge upfront heal, leaving you with a weak HoT which will oom you if you spam it... but Garalon 10man is indeed where resto shamans should be using it glyphed, for lack of better things to do (and the fact that there is constant ticking raid damage through the entire fight, so its 18sec duration doesn't often get sniped by the other healers managing to heal the raid up to full before Riptide is even halfway finished).

idk, I use Healing Rain on 10man Garalon. Not constantly, but when there's a leg "up" if I'm not kiting, I'll place it just forward of the leg's current position so that the melee get some healing as they run through it chasing the leg. Or if we have a clump of ranged who are able to cluster together for a bit.

Definitely run with Chain Heal glyphed; I hate having the cooldown on it, but the extra range for the jumps is absolutely necessary. Between CH cooldowns, the shammy can spam Riptide, or even single-target heal people.

oom issues are often because the shaman might be forgetting to recall his HST after its last tick? He should have Totemic Recall glyphed so that it refunds him the mana he spent on a totem when he yanks it; HST does an obscene amount of healing if you use it on cooldown (& use Call of the Elements to reset it once every 3 min to get back-to-back HSTs) and the glyph gives a shaman a huge amount of healing for free if they can recall the totems properly before they expire.

Having to spam Riptide won't help, so your shaman should be meticulous about the HST-yanking, and Mana Tide early, then after that, on cooldown.
A triage fight like garalon, your resto shammy should be easily breaking 40k even 50k hps.
Alright, I was not aware of the Totemic Recall function. That could explain some mana loss. and the healing for Garalon is about 30-40k. So that could be do to heavy mana consumption. So I'll offer her the advice tomorrow, I'd like to give out logs and all that, but currently I have none saved, which I will do this week and post them on the forums if we are still having problems.

We usually 3 heal Garalon, we've downed him twice now, but it still comes with a lot of effort. So any advice for three healing would be appreciated (It's hard to convince them that we can 2 heal it, so we have to live with the current comp) Our shaman healer does not do Pheromones, so she doesn't have to worry about casting on the move too often.

Healers we use are a Shammy, Disc Priest, and Holy Paladin. The Holy Pally does Pheromones and can still out heal both of our other healers (I also got a thread going in Disc Priest :P)

Thanks for your input folks :)
Like Ellarix suggested, Chain Heal glyph might be a good possibility for a fight like Garalon.

Maybe try using 5 Pheromone kiters. We use the 2 tanks and 3 ranged (no healers). Slightly more crushes, but perhaps less damage overall. We kind of just felt our way through the damage until we found a comfortable spot.

HPS should typically be higher, but we two heal every fight on progression so my numbers probably easily reflect 50k average. Maybe weave more Riptides and watch HST uptime: HST is a metric ton of healing. Make sure they use Ascendance too, a lot of normal encounters may not need it, but might as well pop it at some point.
Healing Rain's mechanic is simple. It's great if people stand in it, abysmal if they don't. It can be utilized to great effect on Garalon, if your raid is running a strategy that permits stacking. If not, then it won't.

Recall is a decent glyph, can be frustrating in that it has zero ability to be utilized if you're using elementals for the healing bonus [Don't want to recall them], unless I'm using the ability incorrectly.

I haven't 2 healed the fight on heroic, yet, but that's primarily because we use a strategy that doesn't permit easy stacking, and we take high stacks of pheromones but we never 3 healed on Normal.
Your composition (Pally + Disc) is going to always make your shaman look bad. Disc and Pally use shields as a core mechanic of their healing. This gates the healing that the shaman can do. Shaman is a throughput beast but having two shield healers is always going to make him look a fool. Shield healers essentially double dip on available healing by providing throughput and by capping others' throughput with their shields. So the healing meter or even logs isn't going to tell the whole story on your fights ever.

However, I would definately agree on the Totemic Recall glyph + recalling HST. This will give him more mana. I would say no on the Riptide glyph though.

Lastly, I have found that mana issues for shaman usually never come down to ones actual mana. It's usually playstyle. In normal modes, he should have Healing Wave in his top five heals. If it's not, then there are his mana issues.

My 2c
02/18/2013 04:41 PMPosted by Vanquisher
I'm pretty sure Healing rain is a 40% mana cost, so why would you want to drop it on a fight where everyone is all over the place, and ask people to step in it

Because there is no reason to be "all over the place" on any fight. If HR hits 4-5 people it is worth casting. Your ranged and healers should all be standing in the HR and he shouldn't have to ask you to stand in it. Ask yourself "am i taking damage?' and then ask yourself "would it make sense to stand in something to refesh my HP" and the answer to your question becomes pretty clear.

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