What am I doing wrong with Demo for PvP?

Warlock
So I've been playing Demo for PvP since I hit 90 and I've loved it the whole time. I did 2s with a rogue and we were killing it. I ended up making a new team with a DK and I don't know why but we are terrible. I feel like I can't kill anybody with Demo anymore. Yes I have a good amount of survivability but DPS is just so low. What are some peoples opener for Demo? I blow CDs and summon a second demon (service) and summon imp army. I put up corr and doom and use both charges of Hand. After that I'm basically SoL except for Fel Flame or standing and trying to cast Soul Fire (lol). Does anyone have any videos or strictly PvP guides that talk about rotos? I just feel compared to other classes our DPS is a complete joke.

Is Affliction good for pvp at all? I know it's good for certain 3s comps but what about for 2s? Is it only good in 2s with a spriest?
There was the chaos wave nerf which lowered demo pvp quite a bit. I do 2s usually with a warrior. I compete with him in damage but he always gets the kb's.
Ya I mean I know that does make a difference but that shouldn't be game changing. I just know I'm doing somethings wrong and not taking advantage of all of our Utility.

What are some manditory macros that people use? Should we be blowing our CDs at the beginning or should we wait until the right time? It's things like this that i'm not 100% sure about.

I realllly like the spec I just am not making the most of it.
honestly, i bg every day and i'd be open to any tips as well. i can't imagine not having service for the second stun. usually if i want to burn i hit trinket / racial. cor, shift, doom, imps, 1x touch of chaos to get another imp out. shift out, fg stun/spin, while stunned shadow bolt, if he trinkets stun then fear, if not service, another hard cast, still no trinket? fear, hard cast whatever, when he trinkets - dc - hard cast or dc - fear. if i live long enough to build some fury shift, chaos waves, then spam touch of chaos.

basically i have a hard time getting any front loaded dmg off but if i live a bit i can hurt you.
what about destro?
Idk why people still use service, u get more damage in the long run with supremacy and the duration of the 2nd pet with service isn't long enough to justify the 2 min cd it usually just gets cc'd for the whole duration anyway
02/14/2013 11:49 PMPosted by Foamy
Idk why people still use service, u get more damage in the long run with supremacy and the duration of the 2nd pet with service isn't long enough to justify the 2 min cd it usually just gets cc'd for the whole duration anyway


I like it because i use the stun right before using CDs and going into Meta and spamming them and having the extra dps also is cool
I personally use service because the demonic fury it builds along with imps and regular felguard allow me to keep meta up longer.

For instance, focus stun healer, if he sits it then a fear, he usually trinkets that, then i will call to burst him then mortal coil him > imps service > = dead healer and usually a dps if they get caught in the felstorm range. which is always, thanks manns fury.

I just feel like grim of surpremecy isn't as good as it could be, the utility quite isn't there for me and it seems that the aoe pressure with two felstorms is just too good
Here's a vid I made on Demo PvP rotation. Should help you out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snDHiIgXZWw&feature=plcp&list=PL-wv6lfv5XbOuJfcVUMalzDGZP3K5VdOJ

Keep in mind this was pre-Chaos Wave nerf though. Now it's more viable to use Hand of Gul'dan instead of GW and then popping Meta when you get your 2 stack up (delay it a few seconds after the first) and HoG will benefit from Meta damage increase.
I normally play def throw up aura of unfeblement and demon hunting wait for them to blow off CDs then pop imps service pop out of demon hunting and procede to go ham on them lol
Here's a vid I made on Demo PvP rotation. Should help you out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snDHiIgXZWw&feature=plcp&list=PL-wv6lfv5XbOuJfcVUMalzDGZP3K5VdOJ

Keep in mind this was pre-Chaos Wave nerf though. Now it's more viable to use Hand of Gul'dan instead of GW and then popping Meta when you get your 2 stack up (delay it a few seconds after the first) and HoG will benefit from Meta damage increase.


Ha it's funny you posted this because I actually found it on my own before I saw this and it helped a lot so thank you.

I have no problem with dps once I'm in Meta with a full bar of fury. My problem comes when I'm trying to build up fury. I throw up my DoTs, and I use imps. What I'm not sure about is whether or not to use service to build up fury or use it for a stun lock when I jump into meta.
So I've been playing Demo for PvP since I hit 90 and I've loved it the whole time. I did 2s with a rogue and we were killing it. I ended up making a new team with a DK and I don't know why but we are terrible. I feel like I can't kill anybody with Demo anymore. Yes I have a good amount of survivability but DPS is just so low. What are some peoples opener for Demo? I blow CDs and summon a second demon (service) and summon imp army. I put up corr and doom and use both charges of Hand. After that I'm basically SoL except for Fel Flame or standing and trying to cast Soul Fire (lol). Does anyone have any videos or strictly PvP guides that talk about rotos? I just feel compared to other classes our DPS is a complete joke.

Is Affliction good for pvp at all? I know it's good for certain 3s comps but what about for 2s? Is it only good in 2s with a spriest?


By the looks of things. I'd say your problem is your gear, you're still mainly in blues, where most pvpers are now in full epics, and even blizz have admitted to there being a problematicly massive gap between the two sets.
So I've been playing Demo for PvP since I hit 90 and I've loved it the whole time. I did 2s with a rogue and we were killing it. I ended up making a new team with a DK and I don't know why but we are terrible. I feel like I can't kill anybody with Demo anymore. Yes I have a good amount of survivability but DPS is just so low. What are some peoples opener for Demo? I blow CDs and summon a second demon (service) and summon imp army. I put up corr and doom and use both charges of Hand. After that I'm basically SoL except for Fel Flame or standing and trying to cast Soul Fire (lol). Does anyone have any videos or strictly PvP guides that talk about rotos? I just feel compared to other classes our DPS is a complete joke.

Is Affliction good for pvp at all? I know it's good for certain 3s comps but what about for 2s? Is it only good in 2s with a spriest?


By the looks of things. I'd say your problem is your gear, you're still mainly in blues, where most pvpers are now in full epics, and even blizz have admitted to there being a problematicly massive gap between the two sets.


Ya and it's terrible because the only way for me to get good epic pvp gear is arena. But it's pretty damn hard to win when you have gear like mine. It's not like i'm gonna use the ilvl 458 pvp gear. I get like one new piece of gear a week. By the time I have full epics it'll be a new season.

It's a viscous cycle
02/14/2013 09:53 PMPosted by Tenuto
There was the chaos wave nerf which lowered demo pvp quite a bit. I do 2s usually with a warrior. I compete with him in damage but he always gets the kb's.


Dat Execute
Ya and it's terrible because the only way for me to get good epic pvp gear is arena. But it's pretty damn hard to win when you have gear like mine. It's not like i'm gonna use the ilvl 458 pvp gear. I get like one new piece of gear a week. By the time I have full epics it'll be a new season.

It's a viscous cycle


Yeah, i know man. My gear is pretty terrible too and i experience the same problems. 5.2 will be out soon, so dont go to too much effort to gear up until the new season.
02/14/2013 11:06 PMPosted by Etryzan
what about destro?


Destro is pretty fun when you are playing Sniper in the bushes and don't have anyone on you.

Your damage becomes insignificant if a Melee is on you. No Chaos Bolts because you need to Ember Tap to live through them running a PvE rotation on ya.
Ya and it's terrible because the only way for me to get good epic pvp gear is arena. But it's pretty damn hard to win when you have gear like mine. It's not like i'm gonna use the ilvl 458 pvp gear. I get like one new piece of gear a week. By the time I have full epics it'll be a new season.

It's a viscous cycle


Yeah, i know man. My gear is pretty terrible too and i experience the same problems. 5.2 will be out soon, so dont go to too much effort to gear up until the new season.


Ya I just found this out -_-

I feel like I've wasted so much time lol
Here's a vid I made on Demo PvP rotation. Should help you out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snDHiIgXZWw&feature=plcp&list=PL-wv6lfv5XbOuJfcVUMalzDGZP3K5VdOJ

Keep in mind this was pre-Chaos Wave nerf though. Now it's more viable to use Hand of Gul'dan instead of GW and then popping Meta when you get your 2 stack up (delay it a few seconds after the first) and HoG will benefit from Meta damage increase.


This was immensely helpful and quite literally the topic of my other thread, since I've been away on a long WoW hitaus and don't have a clue about the new Locks.

Truly, thank you.
It's time for a pep talk.

To answer the direct question, pull imps, get dots up and then CC while you build up to your burst. I have to say I've noticed a recurring thing on all these pvp threads--no one seems to mention cc'ing anymore. And trust me, you are going to win or lose all fights that matter based on your ability to cc aggressively, hands down. You have about 10 seconds to win or lose a fight against a shadow priest, if you don't fear that devouring plague is just two mind blasts away. And enough about DR. If you can't fear, axe toss, mortal coil, carrion swarm a holy pally til he or she is running into a wall like a hamster, you are going to have to figure it out. Locks aren't like other classes, work the differences, you'll have more fun than waiting around to get a dps consolation prize. You can kite and kill a warrior and a hunter. I can do it, and that means you all can do it. It's not easy right now, but my friend put it best when he said, the one thing he will say he loves about locks is that every fight you win, you win b/c you outplayed the other player. That's a cool thing you don't necessarily feel all the time with other classes.

Also, if you are gearing up, your partner is either carrying you or you are both scrapping for a win here and there. If the former, let them worry about the dps, they are carrying after all.

My favorite 2s comp by far right now is with a WindWalker. Frankly that's the only non-stealth melee comp I've found that works. Dks can be iffy, they tend to be single target and it's hard to get yourself to a mid-match reset. Comps or play styles that let you pace yourself work best, los and be a port-!@#$%. You need a way to reset the match after warrior/hunter initial bursts, that's the mid-match goal. Unbound will used early against Shadow Priests and frost mages, followed with fear will reset the damage clock in your favor. Make them have to redo the work they just did. Whatever you do, disavow yourself of the need to burst burst burst. Do the cc/positioning work and the damage will open up. Once you are in Meta with Dark Soul and spell power trinket up, you are effectively unstoppable...touch of chaos is fast, powerful and hits on the full run.

In retrospect, running 2s with another lock forces all this into play. Duel other locks who run different specs, that all helps a lot. You can tell when you are facing a lock that is on his game, you can just feel it, it matters a lot. You wanna be that lock. You have no choice, you are not gonna win any free fights. Sometimes, two sword hacks from a DK and it's over, just the way it is.

And everyone, just spec out of blood fear already, it's going away and opting to impose a CD on fear is just something I will never get. And with drain life buffed 30% when glyphed, start thinking about when you want to throw that into the mix. A mortal coil, fear, drain life combo right after dark bargain/unending resolve runs it's course means you can avoid all damage from a huge burst, you are out of defensive CDs but they aren't doing squat to you for another 2 min, b/c you just made them waste everything.

I say grim of service for this reason too. The damage pressure will make your opponent panic and pull defensive CDs early. That's what you want. Your team member should know that's what you are there to do. And hey, I die all the time. It's pvp. It's the point.

I don't mean to be preachy and this isn't little miss smug talking, it's just frustrating to have everyone mired in endless fapping over our self professed impotency. Help each other out, teach and learn. If you played back in the day, you know you remember the day in Hillsbrad Foothills when a practiced lock grouped with you and showed you how to kite pallies for days. You didn't learn it cause it was obvious. You were helped. Tell people what works for you, get feed back. No spec works like afflict did in cata anymore, they all have issues with their mechanics. Figuring it out will only make you a better player, and the way to start is to sit back and admit "I could be doing this better." I think most locks have the most problems on account getting boxed in to trying to push the class into what it isn't--you are not a shadow priest, you are not a fire mage, you're not a one man show--you never were, even back in the day. You're an integral part of a successful pvp venture, whether world pvp, arena, or bg. We're locks. "Support" is not a dirty word and having the luxury to pace yourself in a fight gives you control, it doesn't make you weak.

On that note, if you have figured out what to do against blink strike used with spirit pets, drop a girl a note, cause I am flummoxed.

-d
You need to play with a healer. I can't even theorize how to play demo with a second dps, other then catch someone off guard and kill them before they blow defensive CD's. That's your entire game plan with a second dps, and I bet you get screwed by any teams with 2+ immunities.

If you for some reason wanted to run with a second dps, stuns would be pivotal because your entire game plan is to land an insta gib.

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