Demo needs a BUFF

Warlock
Changing forms from Dark Apotheosis to Metamorphosis shouldn't bring your demonic fury back to 20. Our Demonic fury shouldn't decrease unless the warlock uses those specific demonic fury consuming abilities and/or spells.
Oh how wrong you are. Dark Apotheosis should reset demonic fury back to 200. The defensive bonus that you get and how quickly you gain DF in that form is amazing. If you were allowed to maintain tankiness and then instantly switch to Meta and nuke something, Demo would be harder to kill than it already is. It is fine the way it is.
Problem is that even in meta with a full fury bar we are still less dangerous than most dps specs out there. In this gear CW might be 40K with all CDs, 50K if I stack it on a trinket rng proc....can peck away with 3K corr ticks, 2-4K melee swings, and some 10-15K fel flames.

Does that really compare to the warrior chunking your HP, the mage who can kill in a deep, spriest, BM zoocleave, etc?

To compare to what warriors, spriests, boomkin, and hunters are doing (5.2) it would be like giving DA form damage in excess of what meta has. THAT his how powerful other classes are. DA gives approx the same mitigation as any of those (not as much as warriors) but we do next to no damage in it. Which is balanced except other classes get that kind of mitigation with more damage than even meta has so its not really that strong.

You can make great money for 1927 but you are still poor as **** today....
OP is right, and then some.

Demonology burst is pathetic as is, and use of our primary defensive ability shouldn't preclude the potential to burst.

As Werst pointed out, even if this absurd flaw (loss of Fury after switching from DA) is corrected Demo Warlocks are still lacking in offensive power.

Why can't the Devs admit the extreme nerf to Chaos Wave was excessive and correct these matters? Revert Chaos Wave (at least partially) and let us keep Fury after DA.

Those simple changes could make Demo into a spec that might actually be viable.

Won't have the defensive or offensive capability of other dps classes but it would be a start.
Warriors don't gain a crapton of rage in defensive. DA form lets the lock gain so much fury in a short amount of time. If you wanted to do what you proposed, then DA form would have to be completely changed to NOT build demonic fury.

Come back to us when you break 1500. Full mal and still not above that? Come on now..

Got my friend his 1550 achi when I was still in 70% blues.

In the real world when you're playing against people who actually have brains Demo is not "fine the way it is". Especially after the nerf to chaos wave. DA is like a tank stance. It's anagolous to a warriors defensive stance. When a warrior has full rage they can freely swap stances and not lose a single rage point. So you can collect rage while in defensive and then swap to a different stance and unload.

How come warlocks can't do the same thing? Warriors outdamage locks even if warlocks COULD do that with demo spec. So it's stupid. It's dumb. And stop defending awful game design.
02/16/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Mindrotter
Oh how wrong you are. Dark Apotheosis should reset demonic fury back to 200. The defensive bonus that you get and how quickly you gain DF in that form is amazing. If you were allowed to maintain tankiness and then instantly switch to Meta and nuke something, Demo would be harder to kill than it already is. It is fine the way it is.
You're all clearly inexperienced in Demonology pvp. But ill forgive all of you because its unlikely you've been using it as a MS since BC.

As mentioned before, the only reason why dropping DA form also drops all of your demonic fury is because generating Fury in DA is exceptionally easy and a mastery stacked demo lock in meta, not only, is unkillable, but can off load a lot of Damage in a short time.

demonology damage is actually a lot better than people think. The Felguard/wrathguard is worth a very massive chunk of your dps. 30 - 50%. In order to keep things balanced, the masters damage needs to be toned down significantly compared to other classes. This Gives the illusion that locks have very poor damage, when people don't realise that the Wrathguard is freely hitting for 20K - 30K every 6 seconds, and the army of imps we command each hit for about 6K once every 1.5 seconds.

I feel that Demonology is in a good place right now, we have a lot of control and a lot of survivability, our damage is decent enough. The only change i'd like to see, is a cast time reduction for shadow bolt. Anything more than 1.5 seconds is really sluggish in a pvp environment, and id happily have the damage adjusted accordingly if i could just have the lower cast time.

in b4 your arena rating sucks, your gear sucks, !@#$% please, I don't need numbers to know how to play my class
Oh, i also forgot to mention. DA is a very poor choice to take in pvp, the damage mitigation is mediocre at best, drop it, take Imp swarm instead, imp swarm gives you a massive amount of demonic fury, this is how you burst as a demo lock
02/17/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Morager
You're all clearly inexperienced in Demonology


As you are obviously an elitist, I shall say the same thing to you. Once you get your ilvl up above 470, come back and the adults might take you opinion into account. See? Being an elitist is freakin' rude. Please refrain from being that ignorant on these boards.

02/17/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Morager
But ill forgive all of you because its unlikely you've been using it as a MS since BC


As if that even matters. This class just got completely re-made in Mists. Grats on playing it 8 years ago, but that doesn't mean you know anything about the new Demo spec. I can't even fathom why you'd even bother making that argument.

Again, being elitist is rude.
I personally think some fury needs to be drained, but all but 200 seems extreme. I'd say cut our fury in half when we swap. If we have a full bar when we switch, we keep 500, if we have 500, we keep 250. I don't see a reason for dropping it down to 200, since DA isn't THAT incredible. Sure it gives us quite a bit more survivability, but not enough to justify a potential 800 fury loss.
very true that fury gains alot faster in DA form, but even so...cutting fury in half when leaving DA form would be compensation enough don't ya think? Say it does build fury twice as fast, then that comes out to even. Though 500 fury isn't enough to last through a full DS buff, which would still make DA/Meta dancing undesirable, unless paired with imp swarm to make Meta last longer.

Still seems a bit excessive to me to drop it to 200, imo.

02/17/2013 01:49 PMPosted by Noctowl
Also, nice monocle :)


Also, thank you for the compliment. lol
You're using imp swarm and Grim Serv, so maybe that way you're able to build enough fury while using it to maintain fury for the whole duration of DS, but you still have to be using around 800 fury during DS rather you start at 800, or 200.

That being said, you could almost say 0 fury is enough to last a full DS duration as long as you manage it right. Sure it is, as long as you gain ~800 fury and use ~800 fury during it's duration.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how you get that 200 fury to last, right? That's the only way I can see it being possible.
So very, very wrong. Hope you're trollin.

02/17/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Morager
You're all clearly inexperienced in Demonology pvp. But ill forgive all of you because its unlikely you've been using it as a MS since BC.


Wrong. Demo is the spec I'd LIKE to use the most, and is one I've played more than any other in MoP.

As mentioned before, the only reason why dropping DA form also drops all of your demonic fury is because generating Fury in DA is exceptionally easy and a mastery stacked demo lock in meta, not only, is unkillable, but can off load a lot of Damage in a short time.


Uhh right... Unkillable unless you're facing a warrior, mage, shaman, hunter, spriest, or rogue. But otherwise unkillable, sure...

02/17/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Morager
demonology damage is actually a lot better than people think. The Felguard/wrathguard is worth a very massive chunk of your dps. 30 - 50%. In order to keep things balanced, the masters damage needs to be toned down significantly compared to other classes. This Gives the illusion that locks have very poor damage, when people don't realise that the Wrathguard is freely hitting for 20K - 30K every 6 seconds, and the army of imps we command each hit for about 6K once every 1.5 seconds.


It's not an illusion. Demo Warlock dmg is pathetic. It's why you pretty much NEVER see Demo Warlocks in bgs.

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