Varian, an actually High King?

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"It violates the spirit of what an Alliance means." no it doesn't. when an alliance of nations fights a war they usually appoint a military leader. this is no different from when General Montgomery was given command of the Allied forces in WWII.

and you have to remember Varian was appointed high king, the other leaders of the alliance follow him because they choose to.

Garrosh on the other hand is a tyrannical dictator and the other horde leaders follow him because they have no choice.


He's making more than just military decisions. He should be in charge of when or where to attack and that's it. His power exceeds that and it's a problem.

Let's say he decided to use sha as a weapon. What choices could the other races make? Night elves can't withdraw from the alliance because they'd get crushed by the horde. It's a do or die situation that they'd be put in. Now, obviously Varian made the right choice, but it wasn't his to make. It should have been all in or nobody is in.

That's the kind of thing that shows its more than just military. Yes, there were military elements to that choice, but it was not a purely military decision. Regardless of what Blizzard claims it means, it is showing up differently in game, whether its is just bad writing or intended.
Let the Varian hatefest commence!
02/18/2013 04:16 PMPosted by Grimtale
Let the Varian hatefest commence!


He should be burnt at the stake wearing a meat dress.
02/18/2013 04:23 PMPosted by Ferlion
Let the Varian hatefest commence!


He should be burnt at the stake wearing a meat dress.


Mmmm BBQ
I'm honestly just torn about the High King idea. I personally think it's still just a military title and that its introduction in the game was handled extremely poorly.

On one hand I sympathize with the dominance of humans being a bit too much... on the other hand I wish people would discuss these matters without a needless sense of self-entitlement and a vehement hatred for a particular playable race that other people happen to enjoy.

02/18/2013 04:23 PMPosted by Ferlion
He should be burnt at the stake wearing a meat dress.


And thus, we move on to the next leader of Stormwind. Prince Anduin Wrynn step right up so we can embrace the Horde with tender loving care!
Does anyone really think Tyrande, Velen, etc. would be more active if Varian wasn't in the picture?

In WoW and TBC, when Varian wasn't around... the other Alliance leaders did nothing.

In Cataclysm, when Varian did nothing... the other Alliance leaders also did nothing.
Does anyone really think Tyrande, Velen, etc. would be more active if Varian wasn't in the picture?

In WoW and TBC, when Varian wasn't around... the other Alliance leaders did nothing.

In Cataclysm, when Varian did nothing... the other Alliance leaders also did nothing.


Ohh no, that's a separate issue all it's own, and one the Horde story is getting increasingly better at addressing, while the alliance story is stilll...well...flat.

But believe it or not, to many people, something isn't better than nothing at all.

Besides that, Varian being active isn't so much the issue as much as the other leaders being made to look bad to make him active.
Does anyone really think Tyrande, Velen, etc. would be more active if Varian wasn't in the picture?

In WoW and TBC, when Varian wasn't around... the other Alliance leaders did nothing.

In Cataclysm, when Varian did nothing... the other Alliance leaders also did nothing.

You could say the exact same about the Horde leaders and Garrosh.

The leaders doing nothing had, well, nothing to do with Varian, or Garrosh, it's that, for some reason, Blizzard didn't really include them in the story. The only leader who did stuff (And I use those words loosely) was Thrall, like when he went to Nagrand.

Before and during BC, the leaders were all stagnant. That's not an Alliance thing and it's certainly not because of Varian they started doing stuff, no more than it's because of Garrosh that the Horde started doing stuff.
Does anyone really think Tyrande, Velen, etc. would be more active if Varian wasn't in the picture?

In WoW and TBC, when Varian wasn't around... the other Alliance leaders did nothing.

In Cataclysm, when Varian did nothing... the other Alliance leaders also did nothing.


That's a different issue.
I agree that it's easier to just write for one leader rather than all of the racial leaders... but looking at Cataclysm and MoP has started to make me think that maybe Blizzard just doesn't find it fun to write about Alliance leaders. I don't really want to come to that conclusion but that's kind of the feeling I get.

When you see Sylvanas, Vol'jin, or Lor'themar doing things they're actually thinking for themselves and representing their people. Then we move on with Tyrande, and she didn't do anything after acting like a Night Elf fan in Krasarang.

I also don't think the problem is Varian either, but just how misused these characters are.
By Night Elf fan I assume you mean sexually repressed lunatic?
02/18/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Ferlion
By Night Elf fan I assume you mean sexually repressed lunatic?


I was thinking something more like "I know what I'm doing, my sentinels are 10k+ year old trained badasses and we can handle this even though it's a trap, you infantile human!"

:P
02/18/2013 05:22 PMPosted by Grimtale
By Night Elf fan I assume you mean sexually repressed lunatic?


I was thinking something more like "I know what I'm doing, my sentinels are 10k+ year old trained badasses and we can handle this even though it's a trap, you infantile human!"

:P


Ohh.
02/18/2013 09:54 AMPosted by Ferlion
There are other interviews that say the other races WOULD worship Varian as king.


I'd like to see this interview. I remember reading quite a few and I remember it was more like "people would end up respecting Varian and would follow him to the Gates of Hell(or in this case Orgrimmar) and beyond."

02/18/2013 10:13 AMPosted by Kynrind
She might be one of the heirs to the throne, but she was not popular by any means. The moment she showed up, she and the Dark Irons installed a dictatorship and it would have gone worse. Sooner than later she would have faced a full on rebellion as she was giving the Dark Irons more power and influence over the Bronzehammers(or is it Bronzebeards?). Either way, things were coming to a boil because she wasn't liked.


Again there will be a war of succession. If you kill Moria the next in line would still be her kid, a kid who cant even decide for himself and would need a guardian(who could potentially be a dark iron!). There will be a war between those who believe her son should inherit the throne and those who might think one of the Bronzebeard bothers should.

Are you seriously comparing a black dragon using magic to hypnotize everyone into doing what she says to what Varian did?

It wasn't incompetence, it was magic. Jesus christ, it's silly to even try and compare the two.


You mean to tell me some of the best mages of the Alliance couldnt even detect a hint of magic? You mean to tell me SI:7 who has there hands on everything didnt decide to do a background check and nothing anything off? Or how about and of the nobility/higher up in Stormwind deciding to question her decision to keep Stormwind army in Stormwind instead of helping its troubled provinces?
02/18/2013 06:13 PMPosted by Zerde
Again there will be a war of succession. If you kill Moria the next in line would still be her kid, a kid who cant even decide for himself and would need a guardian(who could potentially be a dark iron!). There will be a war between those who believe her son should inherit the throne and those who might think one of the Bronzebeard bothers should.


It would be a very short war. The Dark Irons are very few in Ironforge. The Bronzebeard , Muradin(?) would assume the throne and be hailed as the rightful king by the thanes and the dwarven Senate. Which would cut any claim Moira and her son had out at the knees. Considering how long the Dark Irons have fought the Bronzebeards, it's very likely that her sons would not and will not be accepted because he's half damned Dark Iron. Family loyalty only goes so far when the current head (Moira) is a conniving power hungry !@#$%.
I'd like to see this interview. I remember reading quite a few and I remember it was more like "people would end up respecting Varian and would follow him to the Gates of Hell(or in this case Orgrimmar) and beyond."


This was something mentioned by Chris Metzen. An epic questline where we basically babysit King Varian Wrynn while he travels around the world.

"Heres the deal, part of the Thrall thing I have been pushing, I particularly love that character. I dont see that as a Horde issue but as a Thrall issue. Im biased. Heres what we are going to do: I dont know exactly where its going to drop, we are tyrying to get this for 5.0. Varian has the possibility to be a very awesome char. There will be a really awesome questline where Varian really shines out as a character. You will be his squire and will help Varian be an awesome character. And all the Alliance races WILL worship Varian as a true king.

The Alliance is going to need a king that has his !@#$ together. We are going to need this for MoP. We owe the alliance big time! We are also going to explore the various relationships with Andruin (his son), before Christie Golden wrote the shattering we had no plans for Anduin. Its all thanks to Christie that Anduin has been such an important character.

We got some plans for that boy one day, so there you have it." - Chris Metzen


Forget the exact source. Might have been blizzcon.

You mean to tell me some of the best mages of the Alliance couldnt even detect a hint of magic? You mean to tell me SI:7 who has there hands on everything didnt decide to do a background check and nothing anything off? Or how about and of the nobility/higher up in Stormwind deciding to question her decision to keep Stormwind army in Stormwind instead of helping its troubled provinces?


The council of Six didn't when it was Deathwing.
It would be a very short war. The Dark Irons are very few in Ironforge. The Bronzebeard , Muradin(?) would assume the throne and be hailed as the rightful king by the thanes and the dwarven Senate. Which would cut any claim Moira and her son had out at the knees. Considering how long the Dark Irons have fought the Bronzebeards, it's very likely that her sons would not and will not be accepted because he's half damned Dark Iron. Family loyalty only goes so far when the current head (Moira) is a conniving power hungry !@#$%.


Its not just going to be the Dark Irons that they will fight. Bronzebeard would fight against Bronzebeard as well. If the War of the Three Hammer is any indication succession wars are bloody affairs.

02/18/2013 06:26 PMPosted by Ferlion
Forget the exact source. Might have been blizzcon.


I dont think it mean "RAWR I'm king you will follow everything I say" I think it mean Varian will be more like an "Authrian King". Someone you would respect and actually like.

02/18/2013 06:26 PMPosted by Ferlion
The council of Six didn't when it was Deathwing.


I seem to recall they had their suspicions and were investigating it.
I seem to recall they had their suspicions and were investigating it.


They thought something was up, yes. But they thought something was up because they were left out of the meetings.

It was the lack of inclusion of them that tipped them off. There was no such situation where the same circumstances would have been brought up.

I dont think it mean "RAWR I'm king you will follow everything I say" I think it mean Varian will be more like an "Authrian King". Someone you would respect and actually like.


You do realize of course that King Arthur was a High King who held supreme power in his rule, right? He just didn't exercise it.
They thought something was up, yes. But they thought something was up because they were left out of the meetings.

It was the lack of inclusion of them that tipped them off. There was no such situation where the same circumstances would have been brought up.


Actually Krasus was researching on him and he tipped off the council that there was something wrong about him magically.

02/18/2013 07:22 PMPosted by Ferlion
You do realize of course that King Arthur was a High King who held supreme power in his rule, right? He just didn't exercise it.


Granted the analogy isnt perfect. However I was just pointing out Blizz seems adamant to trying to make Varian a likable and respect person. And everything they have said so far idicate Varian is just going to be a military/figurehead leader. We can all speculate that this wasnt there original goal and that they did change it due to feedback but considering its all just speculations and the canon lore state Varian is a military leader only I dont see the point of the argument.
Actually Krasus was researching on him and he tipped off the council that there was something wrong about him magically.


Krasus isn't the best example to use, as he's the best mage the setting has seen outside of the Aspects themselves or Medivh, as well as an ancient Dragon who fought Deathwing before.

Granted the analogy isnt perfect. However I was just pointing out Blizz seems adamant to trying to make Varian a likable and respect person.


I won't argue that.

But showing him in a way that put's players favorite characters in a negative light isn't going to make him likable OR respectable. Instead, it's going to do exactly what happened. Make people resent him as a character AND say the only reason he got he job is because Blizzard dumbed down the other characters.

I WILL argue that his current portrayals have not been military only though.

They can say what they want, until it shows itself in the way Varian acts, it's not really worth much. When he has the power to, again, forbid other leaders from taking action something is wrong.

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