grand crusader, do we even care?

Paladin
I just read the lates patch notes and honestly I am very disappointed. instead of changing grand crusader like before to try to help make dodge and parry viable again they instead decided not only to nerf the percentage on dodge/parry, but also nerf effect proc from CS or HoTR to 12% over all. with it at 20% currently I see it proc few times but atleast I am comfortable with the proc chance now. going down to 12% has me even wondering why they are keeping this in game currently. I hope they change this or give us something else to boost commited HoPo as prot because this hurts.
The previous PTR version ONLY procced off dodge and parry. Even with a lower proc chance on attacks, this is still better than the previous one.
well it was ment to make dodge and parry more viable for prot pallies then haste is with the SoB passive. However, with it being scaled down to a 12% proc chance it makes it seem like its a seemingly worthless ability to have.
No, it was just meant to make dodge and parry not so far behind as they currently are. The intention was never to make them better than haste.

The avoidance-only implementation wasn't working because it completely removed procs when not being attacked. Any time you're off-tanking or tanking a boss like Lei Shi? Those Grand Crusader procs would never have happened under the previous PTR model. The new version keeps the idea of improving avoidance without totally removing something we currently have.

Basically, if you're tanking a single target, you probably won't notice any difference. If you're tanking multiple targets, you get more procs. If you're off-tanking, you get less procs, but not no procs like the previous version would've been.
I have combed the most recent patch notes and I see nothing about this change you speak of.
02/13/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Dirkston
I have combed the most recent patch notes and I see nothing about this change you speak of.

The patch notes update rather...sporadically. The current effect on the PTR is this:

When you dodge or parry a melee attack, or hit with Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous, you have a 12% chance of refreshing the cooldown on your next Avenger's Shield and causing it to generate a charge of Holy Power if used within 6 sec.
The purpose of the change wasn't so much "gut haste" nor even "make dodge/parry better than haste", but rather "make dodge/parry not stats to be actively avoided". Tanks that can use DPS gear is acceptable (from a design perspective), but when tanks specifically avoid tank gear, something has gone wrong.

At 30% from dodge/parry, the overall proc rate was within a rounding error of no change at all compared to live. At 12% from each, we're losing 2/5 of of the haste-based version, and gaining 2/5 of the avoidance-based version, which is again pretty much a wash in overall performance, but still makes dodge/parry a bit less unattractive in comparison to haste.
It still fails to address the issue of Dodge and Parry not being 'interesting'; what might be needed is a chance on Dodge or Parry to generate 1 Holy Power, with a short (6s) ICD. This would make them attractive stats, and at the same time make them do something interesting.
02/14/2013 12:27 AMPosted by Atrea
It still fails to address the issue of Dodge and Parry not being 'interesting'; what might be needed is a chance on Dodge or Parry to generate 1 Holy Power, with a short (6s) ICD. This would make them attractive stats, and at the same time make them do something interesting.


Unless you mean in addition to Grand Crusader, that's effectively what Dodge/Parry does now - procs a Holy Power-generating ability that also deals damage, cleave damage at that.

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