Kil'jaden cunning

Kil'jaeden cunning seems to be far more appealing than the other lvl 90 talents for pvp and I am guessing it is pretty useful against certain pve bosses. So my question is this do you feel like it should become replaced and become a baseline ability? I don't know what percentage of locks take it but if I had to guess which one is most popular I would not even hesitate to guess Kil'jaeden's cunning. It is not an unfair ability in pvp, so I don't see any real reason it can't become a baseline 90 ability. Is there any reason it should not become a baseline ability? And if it does become baseline what you like to see replace it?
I don't see it becoming baseline. Mannoroth's fury does have some uses, but KJC is definitely what I use most of the time. I love jumping around while I fire off chaos bolts, even if its perfectly safe to stand still. And when I actually do need to move out of stuff halfway through a chaos bolt cast, I love it even more.
PVP I would never use KJC as demo. Everything you cast consistently is instant so no real gain. Come 5.2 we will be hardcasting fears again so it will have some bonus but still probably outpaced by MF for demo.

Destro RBGs have 2x options...more chaosbolt focus where you would use KJC or more incinerate cleave where you use MF. Depends on the map and team comp/strat though.

Aff will almost always use KJC but has tons of other problems in pvp.

PVE however....KJC is almost required outside of a few niche fights. I think its a necessary talent to have since it normalizes damage of the class over high/low movement fights. Other classes/ranged have far more mobility and mobile damage (if not outright free fully mobile) so its far from OP or just makes balancing locks doable in pve.

Baseline is a hard thing to cover...honestly AV needs some serious work to catch up. Most critical to that being a split in how much damage is xfered % wise between pve and pvp targets. Simply can't be balanced with one numbers set for both.

I could see certain abilities being given mobile casting baseline and then KJC making everything mobile....that way its less of a necessity and more of a choice.
I wouldn't like to see it as a baseline. I think the other tier talents, AV and MF, need to be buffed to compete. Simple as that.
Depends on what you do in PVP, and your spec. From a Destruction perspective, I think MF is more useful so you can lay down AE Immolate, then massive rains of fire on massed groups and generate Burning Embers really fast, then cut loose with Havoc'd Chaos Bolts. (Always with a portal at your back in case someone sees what you're doing and tries to ruin the party.) Yeah, that's fun.

MF is good in arenas too, especially if facing alot of pets and abilities that generate multiple pets. The burning embers just roll in and you can Ember Tap to heal through incoming damage. Though the range is less useful since those pets are usually clumped together anyway. Breaking stealth at any time is a also a breeze.

But, KJC is almost a prerequisite for punching through all the LOS issues in Arenas. Had a Frost Mage kite me forever, was a challenge getting off a Chaos Bolt before he disappeared --- that'll happen no matter what, but the fact that you have to stop to cast makes a bad situation worse.

And yes, my rating sucks, still learning the ins and outs, but that's been my observation anyway. :D
I would love to have KJC and MF. :)

its a lot of fun, but in alot of situations i find myself using a stop cast macro more.
im sure it hurts my dps if i use it poorly.
lol i get a little too movement happy with KJC... accidentally pull trash all the time. :P

But I love it, I'd like to see it go baseline. For PVE its really the only choice, since most boss fights are never still.
02/14/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Famlock
I would love to have KJC and MF. :)

This would be awesome. MF in pve is simply an amazing talent, I honestly don't see it needing a buff. It's pretty apparent MF and KJC are applicable to very different things and what really needs a buff to become more viable is AV. While it is "technically" a dps boost to use AV in pve (it is more damage after all) the damage you effectively lose from mechanics far outweighs the gain in the vast majority of circumstances, and in the small minority MF is probably a better choice anyways =D. Since Blizzard seems keen on making all talents in a certain tier "equally viable" across specs I would surmise a fix to this would be to buff AV. Seriously I am really surprised there isn't more QQ over MF in pve, demo locks can do absolutely massive amounts of aoe damage. Hell, I can even out aoe-dps a blood DK sometimes!

Seriously though sometimes I queue for LFR if I'm bored just to aoe trash packs as demo.
Croc, you seem to like to make stupid points.

KJC in pvp is amazing. The snare is rarely a serious problem. The amount of opportunities KJC gives you to get a cast off is unbelievable.

Save me? That's not what it's's for maximizing up time in range and LOS.
[edit]I misread demo as destro, nevermind![/edit]..
AV should be redesigned to no longer have a passive effect because the passive effect is silly, weak, and boring.

And the active effect should be changed so that it absorbs all the damage the warlock takes, and redirects it to the marked target. Useable while stunned. 3 minute cool down.

At least that way, if you're getting locked up in CC and getting your rear handed to you, you can cast AV on the enemy healer both saving yourself from all that damage and punish the enemy team for their foolishness.
Does anyone know how the new burning rush (can't go below 100% movement speed) and KJC work in the PTR?

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