Holy priest breakpoint not 3039?

Priest
Angry mob: BURN THE HERETIC!

But seriously, right now I'm not going for 3039, I'm going for 2017. I say this for a couple reasons:

1. 3039 is what it takes to put an extra tick on your renew, therefore raising its healing and mana efficiency. I glyphed renew (cause I luv it so much, also my mana management is pretty decent) so I wouldn't get the extra tick till 4721, which is impossible for me to reach in my gear. Disprove this by telling me what else to glyph besides renew. My others are lightspring and mass dispel (which I'd remove first)

2. If you find yourself often in chakrah state serenity form, there's no reason for the extra hot tick. Because you're refreshing renew. Constantly. It's not going to fall off. So it doesn't need the extra tick. Simple as that.

3. 2017 is the amount of haste needed for your HW:serenity to get 2 extra ticks, and is entirely reachable.

Are any of these convincing? I've been doing it for a while and I just get stares "you know the haste cap is 3039 right?". I want to make certain I'm not COMPLETELY crazy.

Edit: credit where credit is due. stole the numbers from http://talesofapriest.com/resources/haste-breakpoints/ which I find to be a nice table

edit: realized I put the wrong chakrah refresh state... i'm bad and should feel bad :P
The only kink I see is if there's many targets to heal but POH is in the toilet due to distance or grouping. Renews are still effective then, and they do get reset by Cascade so that's a good combo, but its cooldown is too long to get much out of it. So getting an extra tick would be helpful when keeping all of them rolled continuously is not an option.
Yes but I'm using glyph of renew so I don't get the tick anyways :P
try to not use renew and only use poh to throttle divine insight as holy

i am baffled to see anyone still making haste cap points for any reason whatsoever. people still use renew?
02/15/2013 04:28 PMPosted by Mashedorbake
Disprove this by telling me what else to glyph besides renew. My others are lightspring and mass dispel (which I'd remove first)

Hit 3039 Haste, drop your Renew glyph, keep Mass Dispel or other utility glyph. Even Glyph of PoM could be useful on a fight where there is little raid damage.

In place of the Renew glyph use Glyph of Lightwell. Lightspring gains the additional charges.
Are secondaries really so different in effectiveness in holy that you must micromanage them to such an extent...? Some people stack haste, some people stack mastery, and rarely do people say that either is wrong.

Get enough haste that cast speed, GCD length and mana is comfortable, then get mastery.

Liking haste for its effects on cast speed? Blasphemy!
I don't think the OP is terribly interested in stacking Haste, at least from the sound of it.

If I were solely playing Holy I would personally aim for the break point in which Renew and Lightwell/spring gain an additional tick, but since I only play it for one fight I keep my Haste cozy enough for Disc without forsaking too much Mastery. ;)
I don't think the OP is terribly interested in stacking Haste, at least from the sound of it.

If I were solely playing Holy I would personally aim for the break point in which Renew and Lightwell/spring gain an additional tick, but since I only play it for one fight I keep my Haste cozy enough for Disc without forsaking too much Mastery. ;)


I'm really not, just because of how my gear is. It's just, if I reforge everything to haste and such, I still won't hit that point where lightwell and glyphed renew gain an extra tick.

try to not use renew and only use poh to throttle divine insight as holy

i am baffled to see anyone still making haste cap points for any reason whatsoever. people still use renew?


I am baffled you're relying on rng as a healer.... I NEVER use PoH and I don't take this talent. i much prefer power infusion, if something goes wrong I know I'm prepared.

Personally, I love renew. Maybe it's because I glyphed it but it helps a lot and it's awesome for raid damage fights.I just plop renew (.5 gcd) on everyone and use CoH whenever it's off cd. In fact, usually this is where I use power infusion as well if it's a lot of raid damage and divine hymn is on cd. I pop PI, CoH dump a HW serenity down on as many people I can, cascade, PoM, renew people, Coh, renew more people. The only problem I have from this is that cascade likes to overheal... :P
Why wouldn't you use PoH? Certainly on some fights or parts of fights, like IVZ during Attenuation/MC or phase one of Blade Lord, using Renew over PoH (and sitting in Serenity) is favorable in from a 10 man PoV. But on other fights like Empress, Garalon, or Tsulong's night phase, Prayer of Healing should be a spell you are using heavily. There is simply too much AoE damage to efficiently heal with Renew, even with Cascade on CD to refresh the Renews on your ~5 targets.

Holy Word: Serenity should be avoided in 10 man, and in most cases it isn't particularly the best spell in 25 man either.

I tried to look you up on World of Logs but you don't have any logs available for your character. I'd like to present this thread for you to look over and consider at the very least your HW: Serenity use.

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2800

And if you haven't already seen this guide, I invite you to do so as well. Note there is a typo on the Haste threshold portion but you are already aware that the value is 3039 rating: http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1613
Hang on, I wasn't talking about stacking haste.

The point I was making is that both haste and mastery are strong for holy, so you can get either or both, and the exact amount of haste that you end up with should depend on how you feel about cast speeds including the length of your GCD, and how your mana is.

Breakpoints aren't that important. The amount of healing done by an extra tick of Lightwell just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. You think somebody is going to die because they only got three lightwell ticks instead of four? Extra ticks on Renew also don't matter much because Renew is either refreshed through Chakra or doesn't get much use.

We're healers: we get the luxury of taking into account many different considerations, unlike damage dealers who typically should gear as prescribed by their sims.


Breakpoints aren't that important.


They kind of are. They extra ticks serve to supply more hps and mana effiiency to the hots. That's not saying that's all they do, but I feel getting .02 seconds off of greater heal isn't the reason why people want haste.

It's why I prefer mastery. I just see "free healing right here" and jump for joy.

02/16/2013 09:09 AMPosted by Ashleycakez
Why wouldn't you use PoH?


This is actually less of a "dislike for the spell" and more of a "what i'm used to" thing. Basically, PoH only heals parties, not raids. I have aoe-style healing that uses spells like cascade and HW sanctuary to keep damage level, while using PoM/CoH on players who are really getting hurt, and lastly using renew inbetween cds on people who are looking like theyre taking a brunt of damage during the aoe phase. I tend to note that by the end, people are living, and I don't seem to ever be overhealing with renew. The worst of my overhealing tend to be casecade and echo of light. Furthermore, I'm just agaisnt PoH because it looks like some people, those who i'd use renew on, aren't getting the heealing they need while others, such as those who wouldn't even recieve the healing from CoH, will get healing they won't need.
Put simply, I don't trust PoH because of its "party only" style. A little bit is also because it is difficult for my to cast in my interface, but for the most part I tend to do great on aoe healing with my renew.

02/16/2013 09:09 AMPosted by Ashleycakez
I tried to look you up on World of Logs but you don't have any logs available for your character. I'd like to present this thread for you to look over and consider at the very least your HW: Serenity use.


Ty, and also ty for recognizing that I was missing up the spells and keeping up the charade with me. Been playing since cata and still can't get the hang of it...

Anyways, I primarily do 25 man lfr. I only use it when raid damage is being taken, for example force and verge on the first boss of HoF I position it between the first and second barriers.
02/16/2013 03:01 PMPosted by Mashedorbake
Basically, PoH only heals parties, not raids.

02/16/2013 03:01 PMPosted by Mashedorbake
Furthermore, I'm just agaisnt PoH because it looks like some people, those who i'd use renew on, aren't getting the heealing they need while others, such as those who wouldn't even recieve the healing from CoH, will get healing they won't need.

Since your focus is on LFR these concerns are understandable. Unless you get a raid leader who painstakingly weeds through the groups and places melee, ranged, and healers in corresponding groups (i.e. group 1 is 2 tanks, 3 melee and group 5 is all healers), then Prayer of Healing may very well be inefficient. The reverse is false in an organized normal or heroic mode raid in which the raid leader should address grouping for his Priest healer.

Perhaps using an addon, like Grid (with a plugin) or Vuhdo, would help you figure out if there is a viable PoH target so that all people in the group are hit. I would still recommend PoH if 3 out of 5 players, within range of each other of course, are in need of healing - more healing than Renew could do.

02/16/2013 09:09 AMPosted by Ashleycakez
consider at the very least your HW: Serenity use.

Sorry, I mean to say HW: Sanctuary here. It is quite the lackluster spell in most cases, unless you have mana to burn and you don't care.
02/16/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Ashleycakez
Unless you get a raid leader who painstakingly weeds through the groups and places melee, ranged, and healers in corresponding groups


Yeah definately. I remember back in Cata, when my raid group was doing BWL on nefarian, they're just like "let's go" and im like "hell no im tasked with healing guy1, guy 2, guy 3, and myself, and we're all in 2 separate grps. are you crazy? sort them out". because of that XD.

02/16/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Ashleycakez
Perhaps using an addon, like Grid (with a plugin) or Vuhdo, would help you figure out if there is a viable PoH target so that all people in the group are hit


Thanks, I'm actually gonna look into those BECAUSE I've been thinking abou tit. I have my healbot sorted into groups but at times it's just too hard to tell who is in what group on a moment's notice.

02/16/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Ashleycakez
Sorry, I mean to say HW: Sanctuary here. It is quite the lackluster spell in most cases, unless you have mana to burn and you don't care.


I'm surprised. If anything I would expect tons of cascade hate. Higher mana cost, longer cds, less constant, incredibly easy to overheal with... I can understand dislike it if no one is grouped together or in a 5 man, but 25man raids people sould love it. especially on something like force and verve.
Cascade is very good if the healing is needed. You don't need to hit it on CD on most fights. Keep in mind that 25 man LFR often has too many healers for the damage going out, so what may look like a lot of overhealing on Empress would translate to very little on 10 man Normal Empress with 2 healers.

Also, Cascade doesn't require grouping. I believe it bases who it bounces too from the Priests's position. So if you are set up like

You + 3 ranged dps |---20 yards---| 5 ranged dps 2 healers |----30 yards---| 2 healers 6 ranged dps

I don't think it will hit that last group of "2 healers 6 ranged dps." I could be mistaken, this is just from observations of hitting Cascade while running back in from a wipe and seeing it not bounce to players ahead of the other 2 or 3 in front of me because they are out of range of my other heals.

Divine Star requires the raid to be stacked and is useful on a few fights in 10 man.
No, Cascade goes all over the place.

Try casting it in Stormwind/Ogrimmar.
02/17/2013 07:03 AMPosted by Ashleycakez
Also, Cascade doesn't require grouping.


Yeah, but wouldn't HWsanctuary also be useful on aoe fights? I'm failing to see the reason beyond positioning that is the flaw in HWSancuary, and, like in force and verve, a lot of people stack up.
We'll look at the example you have put forth.

Force and Verve is a casted ability which lasts for 10 seconds. In my past experience this event seems to occur on a 30-40 second cooldown. So basically you are placing a HW:Sanc to do 10 seconds of healing and then 20 seconds of overhealing as there is no additional damage, save for a bit of tank/Exhale target damage.

Alternatively you could have just dropped a Lightwell pre-pull, perhaps used Chakra: Sanctuary on this platform (although in 10 man I'm not sure it matters, Serenity may be better but we'll look at it from the PoV of LFR), and cast PoH -> Cascade -> PoH -> CoH or the equivalent. Healing in Serenity in 10 man may involve some Binding Heal for additional potency on PoH as needed.

LFR is a snipe-heal-fest so if your concern lies in your casted heals going into overhealing, well, it wouldn't matter in Normal content unless you three healed this encounter.

I do think its best to practice good healing techniques. I am by no means perfect myself, nor will I ever claim to be, but HW: Sanc is waste on this fight imo. I'm sure if you had logs you would notice the overhealing during the first platform as well.
I came in here and was all excited b/c i saw holy priest...thinking maybe someone was throwing up some numbers on the dps and new changes going around the ptr. I was disappoint. =(.

I'll go back to my corner now.

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